> They're speaking metaphorically.

Metaphorically, evolution has no goals.

>> "The above flatly contradicts your sources, who argue that their version of evolution is progressive."

> Like where? Where do they specifically say that?

Read the thread, including another poster's representation of their views: "When Bostrom and others talk about humanity, they usually mean humanity and its extremely advanced descendants." This clearly represents a distillation of their philosophy.

And from the source:

Link: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/12/steps-up-the-ladder.ht...

Title: "Steps Up The Ladder"

Quote: "How far have we come, and how far might we go? Imagine this progress as climbing a ladder on the side of a tall building, where at each new floor we get ten times more capable."

Hey, it's the topic under discussion, introduced by another poster. It's New Age nonsense with no connection to reality or evolution.

> As for the rest of your post, I can't say I disagree with the facts, only with your opinions.

I didn't post any opinions -- this is a discussion of evolution, one you started. Evolution doesn't rely on opinions, it relies on evidence.

> ... the fact that they are both respected professors has zero relevance ...

Do you never discuss science with anyone, anywhere, ever? You just repeated another poster's earlier logical error. In science, authority counts for nothing -- evidence is the only issue. The greatest amount of scientific eminence is trumped by the smallest amount of scientific evidence.

> Yes, we are discussing here things like changing people's genes, and yes, that means it is eugenics. No, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

Then you haven't studied history or learned any of its most important lessons. A social discussion of genetic engineering of the human genotype based on microbiology, inevitably becomes a social discussion of genetic engineering based on killing all the "inferior" individuals.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Quote: "Throughout its recent history, eugenics has remained a controversial concept.[10] As a social movement, eugenics reached its greatest popularity in the early decades of the 20th century. At this point in time, eugenics was practiced around the world and was promoted by governments, and influential individuals and institutions. Many countries enacted[11] various eugenics policies and programmes, including: genetic screening, birth control, promoting differential birth rates, marriage restrictions, segregation (both racial segregation and segregation of the mentally ill from the rest of the population), compulsory sterilization, forced abortions or forced pregnancies, and genocide. Most of these policies were later regarded as coercive or restrictive, and now few jurisdictions implement policies that are explicitly labelled as eugenic or unequivocally eugenic in substance."

Any questions?