We're rarely the target customer and rarely behave like "average Joe". We're naturally resistant to superfluous redundancy ("My phone can already snap a barcode, I don't need a separate device") when consumers don't even see the duplication let alone the issue. They don't separate devices (or even apps) has having layers of similarity and just see things for their end functionality.
My mother would see a phone and apps as completely separate functionality to a physical device like this. She probably would have the Amazon Fresh scanner, the (theoretical) Google Shopping Express scanner and the (also theoretical) Whole Foods scanner and wouldn't even consider the duplication, let alone be frustrated by it. She doesn't care about the potential for an "open standard"/"common standard".
She also has an AppleTV and a ChromeCast connected to the same smart-TV that also has native apps within it (she mostly uses the native apps). Again, she sees no issue with that and might even buy an Amazon FireTV if she felt it was more compelling for one use.
Ultimately we shouldn't assume consumers value convergence, especially when it creates ever increasing complexity in user experience (eg opening an app to snap a barcode vs pressing a single button on an Amazon Fresh scanner)
ADDED: If you don't have parents that also work in tech, go visit them and just watch them use technology without prompting. Ask them about their experiences, their frustrations, their decisions behind purchasing specific equipment and downloading particular apps. It's very insightful.
A dedicated device means everyone in the household can use it without the friction of having to help everyone find the app and register with the same account.
People without phones (like kids) can use it.
It's designed to sit on the kitchen counter or hooked on to something. That physical presence reminds you to use it when you're in the kitchen, where an app buried on the last page of the home screen is easy to forget.
The camera-based barcode scanners like the one built into the Amazon mobile app are significantly more difficult to use than laser scanners. In a grocery shopping context, shoppers will purchase dozens of different products and every bit of additional frustration and delay matters.
One issue with the website: the hero image is really bad. The background is blurred out so there's no context and there are no other objects in the frame so I have no sense of scale. If there was like an apple next to it or something, and you could see it was in a kitchen, that would be so much better.
Dash device is an exemplar of a service in the same way that a Kindle device is. Amazon retains the option to later go the other way too, but while the constraint is still on the supply side (limited markets) this device serves to fix the service as a thing and generate publicity.
Also, the platform is controlled by Amazon. Free from interference by Apple, Google, OEM or carrier. Wifi and internet aside, all support issues will be standard and coming back to the same place.
For a mass-market voice UI device with no screen, at this stage in the game, voice recognition has to be best in class. I doubt Amazon could have managed this through a plethora of mobile devices. And they would not want their commercial voice data to be processed on Apple's or Google's servers via OS services.
I expect a tear-down will show that some of the parts used are, for now, relatively expensive, but at volume, this device can become a give-away / throw-away.
Sounds like a gap - Ninite for mobile.
(A quick Google suggests the idea's out there, but not yet implemented - http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/mvgh7/is_there_some...)
Every one is becoming increasingly more addicted to their iDevices or Android devices. It doesnt have anything to do with IQ, its common sense to use whats on you - your 'smart phone.
Reminds me of this excellent article by Bret Victor: http://worrydream.com/ABriefRantOnTheFutureOfInteractionDesi...
Making everything an app narrows the bandwidth between the user and the tool. Now everyone needs a phone, and you can't leave the scanner where it gets used, and you have to go through the generalized touch interface to get to the functionality instead of (and this is a valid UI) just picking up the scanner.
I'd argue though remembering where you put this thing, or "oh hey the wifi password got changed why isn't the food scanner working?" adds lots more complexity than hitting an app icon. The app route also enables you to have multiple scanners - since the target audience of such a product is probably already heavy on tech, and most probably have multiple cell phones.
I guess that last line might be the issue. It isn't really a cell phone, it is a capacitive touch computer with a microphone and speaker, but that is something we haven't yet conveyed well.
Apps enabling multiple scanners - again assumes multiple smartphone ownership in the house in order for everyone to use it vs just having a single dedicated scanner that (as Amazon suggests in their site) hangs on your refrigerator.
I'm not even sure the average consumer is sufficiently trained yet about opening apps. I heard a segment on NPR recently where multiple callers (and the host) referred to a company's mobile-optimized website as an "app", many normal people don't really know what an app really is. I'll dig out the Pew Research study on mobile phones that said something like 20% of smartphone owners don't install any apps on their phones beyond those that came with the device (perhaps because they're fuzzy on the concept).
UPDATE: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/story/2012-01-30/sm... - 17% of smartphone owners don't use any apps at all according to Pew.
Dedicated devises definitely have their uses, and this one is one of them.
2) If you're cooking and your hands are occupied/covered, you're going to have a hard time using a phone with your hands. Phones aren't typically waterproof, and touchscreens don't typically work well with water on them.
3) If you use a screen lock on your phone, any app is immediately inconvenient given #2
This device seems to be designed specifically for the job, and has a low per-use setup cost.
Everyone who would buy their groceries via Amazon has a smartphone. This device is as baffling as it looks. With a smartphone you have the choice of UPC code scanning, QR codes, or label/logo recognition (as in Goggles).
One of the photos implies it is a laser bar code scanner. So if this gizmo is useful, it's because it would be faster and more reliable than photographing bar codes. Not because potential users don't have, or can't use a phone camera for this purpose.
Friction is key. The example I typically use is "if the laser printer were in the basement vs. next to your desk how much would you use it?"
A device that you can pick up, hit a button, and do your thing has less friction than doing the same on a smartphone.
maybe it will take off, maybe it will not.
drawing any conclusions right now is bs.
If you receive a free device in the mail that can scan your groceries, you'll use it. If you receive a link to a free app then there is a much slimmer chance that you'll use the service and purchase the products.
Yep, indeed. And the frustrating part is that they choose "easy" over "simple" and end up drowning themselves in "complexity". And they go like "I have so many devices already, and I've already went through the pain of learning to use them, I'm not going to bother to learn the mobile app you talk about too, even if it you say it can replace them all and save me money, it's jut too much for my brain, this I already know, go away!". Big win for the sellers of these devices that are first to get to the market. Amazon will win big with these!
The interesting people is how can we educate consumers to value what we call "convergence", because their current way of thinking hurts both themselves (they end up spending more and being too "overloaded" to be capable to make the best shopping decisions, or the other extreme, having access only to "curated slices of the market" with the same consequences) and to the tech sector as a whole (yeah, more devices mean more innovation at start, but since convergence will happen anyway at a point, all we end up is reinventing wheels and generating tons of needless complexity that we drown ourselves in...).
(for a definition of how I use 'simple', 'easy' and 'complex' refer to - http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Simple-Made-Easy it's about programming but I think the metaphors also apply to UI/X)
I actually want Apple to do something about this, though I'm not normally in on Apple's philosophy. I propose the following:
1. Any TV channel without content on it goes away. If you only have 3 channels with signal you get no benefit from being able to select 96 channels of white noise.
2. Cable/satellite channels stack on top of the TV channels. It just looks like your TV has more over-the-air channels when you plug in the box.
3. DVD-players and so on are treated as channels (see 3). EXT goes away. A device can be represented by as many channels as it wants, but they're all stacked on top of the TV channels. No special treatment, except perhaps a lower number. A device is turned on when you select a channel associated with it.
4. Any sound systems automatically defer to the settings on the TV. They behave as if they were the TV speakers. No setup. No settings. No knobs to turn. Plug and Play. If a sound system has buttons it's too complicated.
5. DVD/BR players lose all but play/pause, ff/rwd and the nevigational buttons. Why is there a numpad on my DVD remote? I don't even want to know. Just make it go away. Same with the TV remote itself: Everything except on/off, numpad and volume disappears. Remotes are not unified, but everything that can be deferred to the TV remote is deferred to it.
The above isn't completely perfect, but it's kind of obvious.
I'm currently studying but I might be available for hiring or consulting. I obviously compare favorably with whoever is maintaining the status quo.
I think you are on the right analytic route but somehow down to wrong direction. the mass market just doesn't want more than one ways to consume computing. at a given time, vast majority of consumer want to learn exactly one thing (WIMP, google, App with touch support) and then apply the knowledge everywhere. the cost of migration to new paradigm for the mass market is so high that minor mutations would have to live with sub 10% share. (think about MacOS in window's high day, bing/yahoo in google's day, and Nokia).
will Dash have a market? yes. will it be successful? no.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! I still have a working CueCat. I think the Jury is way still out on this. I'm betting it will do better than the CueCat because Amazon as a company has a better track record, but assuming this was a brilliant move to use a proprietary, non-smart phone device is—it is just way too early! For example, all it takes is the next generation of phone to be like, "Hey we should improve our barcode scanning in the next Samsung Galaxy SVI The Undiscovered Country."
It's easy to conceive of device boxes just adding channels to the TV, or having a protocol for using the TV remote to navigate their menu (this is a great opportunity to create a bad experience, but it wouldn't have to).
Nothing will prevent you from doing that also (I'm sure).
Just like you can own a kindle but also read kindle books on, for example, an iphone.
Break out your phone, load up your barcode scanning app (there's 20 seconds right there even if the phone is in your pocket). Now try to actually scan something with it. You'll spend another 30 seconds lining up the little on-screen window with the code, rotating things, waiting for the camera to focus, and even having to move to another location if you're not in bright lighting. It's a terrible experience and that's why you don't see stores checking people out using the camera of an iPad.
A barcode scanner, on the other hand, just works. You point it in the general vicinity of the barcode, press the button, and it's scanned. You don't have to perfectly align anything, be in specific lighting, or wait for a camera and an app. I'm sure you've seen cashiers run multiple things over a scanner in under a second.
Amazon Dash isn't just a subset of your phone's functionality. It's a dedicated barcode scanner, which is hardware you don't have on your phone.
Anyway with respect to this:
"It's a dedicated barcode scanner"
So I would expect then if the amazon device turns out to be a hit that a dedicated bar code scanner might be incorporated into the functionality of a smartphone. Where if it was waved over a bar code you'd get a screen where you could then take action (or not). After amazon proves the market of course. (Like with Kindle).
I don't think that this necessarily means that an amazon device wouldn't have a use though. It would still come in handy for other purposes and at other times.
Anyway, it doesn't 'just work'. Often you stand there like a lemon trying to scan again and again. You can pick out the people who've barely used them as they always take an age to scan everything.
And each major supermarket has their own version of these things and they're all equally as cumbersome to use, so I think barcode scanning gets easy with practice but it definitely doesn't 'just work'.
Though in this case, you could also just say "lemons" and be done with it.
1. Find your phone
2. Unlock
3. Swipe left to home page three or maybe four
4. Visually scan for the AmazonFresh icon and tap
5. Wait for loading
6. Start scanning action
7. Confirm and pay
Number of steps to scan grocery by Dash:
1. Get device from drawer or pantry
2. Press one button and scan
3. Confirm and pay
For the target demo (30+, married, households with children), option 2 wins hands down. Because you will easily be distracted and stop using option 1 and not complete checkout.
Amazon knows CPG and commerce better than you do.
Number of steps to scan grocery by Dash:
1.) Find scanner
2.) Turn on scanner
3.) Start scanning action
4.) Find laptop (or mobile phone)
5.) Navigate to browser
6.) Sign in to Amazon Fresh Account
7.) Confirm and pay
I don't honestly think the Dash would provide a discernibly faster experience, but I do believe it would be the option your target demographic opts for simply because the Dash is explicitly designed for this type of task. Just because my phone can turn on the television doesn't mean I won't reach for the remote every time.
2. I think its very unlikely a device like this in year 2014 will have a power on button. Scan and power on will most likely be the same thing. Charging battery of yet another device is still a hurdle though
4-7 is something you only do once a week, and this action could still be done on the phone,
Also, if something like this gets baked into iOS or Android the steps change to "Swipe from home screen. Select 'Scan'."
Though I trust Amazon here and assume their hardware works in more situations than a phone's camera
"Number of steps to scan grocery by phone"
Most people just use pencil + paper, or notepad/note app on phone. Never have I seen people actually use technology while shopping unless it's a typed out list.
Although nicely executed, I really don't see Dash being more than something a gadget freak uses for a few weeks and then sits in a drawer forever. Also doesn't help that the area for Amazon Fresh is so small too.
In fairness however, my wife and I use grocery lists on our phones all the time (though it's only two steps, not the OP's 7: (1) "put peaches on my grocery list" (2) confirm).
And then possibly a text message. Of course, it goes from being 2 things to 10 things quickly. And then I'd have to deal with actually keeping the list orderly and constantly checking what I did have in the basket already (more difficult with 20+ items).
So, I wrote an app. It was funny, building a "twodo" app. But honestly, I just needed something that worked.
I mention all of this because it did start with trying to use what we already had.
Option A
1. Ask your phone to buy {name of item}
2. Screen turns on, tap to confirm your purchase
Option B
1. Find the Dash device
2. Scan the item (if you haven't already discarded or recycled it, and haven't ruined the barcode in the process of opening it)
3. Confirm and pay
To me, Dash feels like a (possibly unnecessary) stopgap on Amazon's part. I understand they have the means to try things like this, but selling a device seems superfluous given the developing capability and direction of phones. As an Amazon customer, I hope Option A is their endgame.
Outside theory, I don't see that working very well in the real world currently.
On amazon fresh website, there are currently
229 results for "green apples"
8 results for "granny smith apples"
2 results for "1 granny smith apples"
Same with ham, eggs, or any other products really. Sure, the user could be more specific, but then it gets a lot more work and problematic than simply scan the damn barcode for this "4-in-1 pack of organic spanish strawberry yoghurt march special offer".
Creating things people want and are willing to give you money for requires paying attention to what they actually do and use -- not just what they say they do, nor how you feel they should be acting.
It's designed with a loop so you can hook it somewhere handy. They show this in the video at 1m27s.
Yes, if you throw away your box for your granola bars, you might not have the bar code handy, but it was at least there when you bought it in the store.
Possibly a case of doing one thing wrong that ruined the entire product. We'll see.
And the industrial design! It was a chintzy elongated white plastic cat, with an IR window across the mouth. And it was finicky as hell to use, compared to a real barcode scanner.
A lot of people already kind of do this. They go to a shop, find the items they like and look up on the web if they can get a cheaper price by ordering online.
This version of the product might not be so practical for this use case though since it requires a WiFi connection and can probably only scan AmazonFresh barcodes.
Can easily see this evolving into an Amazon price comparison tool for mobile use. Maybe I get a flash discount if the GPS has me standing in a Best Buy already.
I actually thought that this is exactly what it was for when reading the first few bullet points and didn't think of home first, just a "Oh wow, they're making showroom shopping even easier."
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=aw_ppricecheck_i...
Which means it is only available in three locations (SoCal/SF/Seattle).
Source: I live in So Cal.
At some point they should be done with all the market research there is to do and either go big or stop wasting resources on building gadgets for it.
With their main business they chose to grow as fast as possible and are still figuring out profitability. When you're selling electronics with 50% markup that works. Groceries, which have <5% margins, not so much.
They might even be able to get away with just giving you free stuff outright as a discovery method too, given the huge amounts of consumer behaviour data they must have — as long as their algorithms can predict you have a profitable% chance of reordering the item.
(1) Order frequency - Right now, a typical customer likely picks up groceries when they're out and it's convenient. This very well could be on the commute home from work, later at night, etc. With Dash sitting around the kitchen, Amazon has now created a very tangible reminder in the form of the Dash device to order your groceries, rather than waiting until it pops into your mind (and possibly not buying on Amazon).
(2) Average order size - As someone posted above, it takes 1 or 2 button clicks to reorder an item using Dash. Compared to the current way of online grocery shopping, Dash eliminates a lot of possibilities of forgetting to reorder something you intended to, because it is so simple. Compared to on the PC when you may forget to browse the snacks category, for example, and you forget to order chips and cookies. Way less likely to happen with Dash.
This doesn't address price concerns, but in terms of convenience for Amazon Fresh customers & increasing Fresh orders/order size, this seems like a massive win-win for Amazon and their customers.
I will say when we used it, the produce quality was very good which was one of my concerns. Seems like they went above and beyond to address the fear of not picking your own apple.
I can't see ever paying the $299 special prime membership they are requiring in some markets though.
If you don't order that often, the margins probably aren't high enough that Amazon can afford to service you.
If anything I'd imagine rolling into recommended food subscriptions.
It looks fairly large (plenty of battery room), has no display (not sure about scanner battery usage), and transmits little data over WiFi per use. With it's simplicity, there's no reason they can't use the lowest power MCU and WiFi modules they can find.
All of these have good usability implications, but it looks like battery life was probably also a big design consideration.
Seriously though, it worries me that there are more and more 'listening devices' in my home.
We've seen what has happened recently with the NSA listening to calls. What is to stop the authorities getting a back door into all these devices and just recording everything?
I'm not going to buy a Xbox One unless I can effectively mute the mic (not just the UI telling me I did) and I'm not having a nest thermometer tied to some weird social login/profile that I have to create in order to use it.
I'm certainly not going to stick some amazon listening device in my kitchen.
Which means it will be next to useless for the sort of carpet-surveillance the NSA has been accused off.
Checkout lines must also be a real profit center with all the high-margin impulse buy items (magazines, snacks, etc) placed there.
(Half joking: Or is it a Speak Friend And Enter kind of thing, where you have to speak the WiFi credentials.)
Can't do speech recognition since that's done in the cloud and won't work without a Internet connection.
Like many have mentioned, we find the appeal of a dedicated device tends to be embraced more by non-techies. We like to say hiku is more Kathie Lee (http://tinyurl.com/mxjxml8) than Engadget (http://tinyurl.com/nbpyg97).
The part of hiku that 'remembers for you' is in market now (scan/voice, list on your iPhone), shops for you is coming (integrated commerce).
If any of you are interested in playing around with hiku, we would welcome your feedback. We are backordered but will begin shipping again end of this month. Use hackhiku at checkout and we'll knock off $20 (limited to the first 10 people).
We use our API externally for retailer integration, and are considering making that public or at least opening up more private access. So if you are interested in someday creating something with hiku, we would welcome your input there as well.
Happy to discuss more offline, rob@.
No thanks.
I suppose they could try to pivot and cater to a different ecosystem (Google shopping express, or the like), but seems like an uphill battle.
Amazon acts like a startup still. Good for them!
But with Dash, it's just grab the Dash from whatever convenient location you keep it, speak into the Dash, and put it back. That's easy enough that I would do it, and Amazon would get my purchase.
Unfortunately, Amazon Fresh really kind of sucks (at least in SF), so the whole premise is flawed. Oh well.
I know someone who runs a book shop, and he frequently has people browse for books, only to buy them online later for slightly less.
Or are you simply being a model HN contributor and nitpicking any little thing that comes to mind?
You have attacked me for misinformation whereas you are the one misinformed.
EDIT: I am a Amazon Prime user and turned off one click because I saw my son clicking on stuff he wanted. And there is confirmation email. You basically have to rollback the purchase if you can. Sometimes you can't if it's shipped.
Where do you see a keypad for this device? How will you enter a password?
I am curious what the upgrade cycles of these products will end up being. Can Amazon charge a subscription and keep giving me a new one?
It isn't common, that is for sure. And the bar code folks don't make it easy for folks. Simply publishing the bar code database would be a huge 'win' for barcode adoption.
[1] http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/04/how-a-startup-accidentally-...
I bet they built custom hardware for a couple reasons: 1. Custom hardware sitting around reminds you of Amazon and your ability to order. Having a new device feels more futuristic, which does seem logically odd. 2. Durability. While cooking etc, you dont' want to touch your phone. This looks very easy to clean/throw around. 3. Barcode scanner speed. Apps with cameras are much, much slower at recognizing barcodes than this. This removes a lot of interface. Just scan it and you're done -- no hassle switching apps, holding the camera just right, etc. I bet this feels more natural.
They have that: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amazon.pri...
Barcode scanner, and voice recognition. It's not nearly as cool or convenient as a dedicated device though.
Compared to a dedicated barcode scanner, phones are pretty terrible for this.
I always wish I could try amazonfresh, but like Google Fiber they are snails at deployment. And Amazon doesn't even have the "company has no experience with end user distribution" since that is literally their primary business.
...
next day what shows up, exactly?
6 granny smith apples?
a 15 pound bag of golden delicious?
3 MacBooks pro?
ummm
You have to confirm the order.
But it says you can also speak to it.
Or do I just have a cold, black heart?
I thought it was a cute concept but also found the narration a bit grating, and I'm the parent of multiple small children. My wife would probably think it's adorable though.
