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0 pointseli11y ago0 comments

I think perhaps you've been consuming only media that mirrors your own viewpoint. Many people are upset that Snowden "violated his oath," that he took it upon himself to effectively dismantle programs he disagreed with (even if the program was indeed out of line), and that he fled from the consequences of his actions.

If you believe public opinion polling, a majority of Americans don't like what he did and think he should return to face trial: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-most-think-edward-snowden-s...

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freehunter11y ago

Fleeing the consequences of his actions is akin to ducking after disagreeing with an irrational person. Right or wrong, they're about to hit you. You don't have to stand there and take it.

If he had faced the consequences of his actions, he wouldn't be around right now to continue this discussion.

sanderjd11y ago

You don't have to stand there and take it, but sometimes it is better if you do. You don't know that he wouldn't be around right now. I happen to think that he would still be around, but certainly his life would be more difficult. But I also think he'd be more "popular".

couchand11y ago

Interesting trade-off: living in exile but invited to video conference at every big name event and helping direct the course of the national security discussion, or in solitary confinement in Guantanamo but more "popular"

I'd say Snowden made the right choice.

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krapp11y ago

Bear in mind another point - believing Snowden needs to stand trial doesn't necessarily presume a belief that he's guilty, or should be punished, either. Americans also tend to believe the justice system works as advertised.

danielweber11y ago

As a matter of order, people should only stand trial if the government legitimately believes them guilty and the government believes it can prove this to a jury.

Trials aren't for finding out facts or uncovering the truth. They are the formal processes that a government must do after deciding that a citizen deserves punishment to actually effect their decision.

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mpyne11y ago

This was be one of the easiest trials the government has ever had to put on though. Snowden admitted what he did himself, after all.

talmand11y ago

I for one feel he should not be punished under whistleblower laws, but I would be open to a proper trial. I would like to see that discussion in open court, not a secret tribunal where the outcome is only reported by the government doing the prosecution.

Which is why I think he should not return to face trial, because I think there's no way he'll ever get a fair and open trial in the US.

eliOP11y ago

According to that poll, a majority of people also disapprove of what he did. But yes, very true.

josho11y ago

I am not American, so perhaps it is that the rest of the world sees this differently than American's do.

Regarding Snowden fleeing, if you disagree with his choice then give this interview a read[1], it is with the whistleblower for the Pentagon papers. The opinion is that if Snowden didn't flee in today's climate then he likely would have ended up in isolation or Guantanamo.

As an outsider to the US it is interesting to observe that American's (on average) have a high distrust of their government, yet follow quite closely the US government's line. (Please note this is not intended to inflame, but it is an honest observation from an outsider that has observed many American's and is intended for you to reflect upon).

[1] http://www.salon.com/2013/06/14/daniel_ellsberg_edward_snowd...

mpyne11y ago

> The opinion is that if Snowden didn't flee in today's climate then he likely would have ended up in isolation or Guantanamo.

That's his opinion, and it's unfounded IMHO. Actual terrorists are increasingly and deliberately put on public trial in New York, and Bradley (now Chelsea) Manning got his (now her) trial as well.

zevyoura11y ago

Manning was held in effective solitary confinement for 9 months.

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freehunter11y ago

Fleeing the consequences of his actions is akin to ducking after disagreeing with an irrational person. Right or wrong, they're about to hit you. You don't have to stand there and take it.

If he had faced the consequences of his actions, he wouldn't be around right now to continue this discussion.

sanderjd11y ago

couchand11y ago

I'd say Snowden made the right choice.

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krapp11y ago

danielweber11y ago

As a matter of order, people should only stand trial if the government legitimately believes them guilty and the government believes it can prove this to a jury.

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mpyne11y ago

This was be one of the easiest trials the government has ever had to put on though. Snowden admitted what he did himself, after all.

talmand11y ago

Which is why I think he should not return to face trial, because I think there's no way he'll ever get a fair and open trial in the US.

eliOP11y ago

According to that poll, a majority of people also disapprove of what he did. But yes, very true.

josho11y ago

I am not American, so perhaps it is that the rest of the world sees this differently than American's do.

[1] http://www.salon.com/2013/06/14/daniel_ellsberg_edward_snowd...

mpyne11y ago

> The opinion is that if Snowden didn't flee in today's climate then he likely would have ended up in isolation or Guantanamo.

That's his opinion, and it's unfounded IMHO. Actual terrorists are increasingly and deliberately put on public trial in New York, and Bradley (now Chelsea) Manning got his (now her) trial as well.

zevyoura11y ago

Manning was held in effective solitary confinement for 9 months.

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