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0 pointsrayiner11y ago0 comments

> I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

I imagine this is entirely a function of your social circle. The polls conducted this year have been marginally in favor of his prosecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_on_Edward_Snowden's_.... It's a deeply divisive issue for Americans, though it breaks along the usual lines (age, etc).

My dad, for example, who is very liberal on most things, is no fan of Snowden. Especially among the older generation who grew up during the Cold War, nothing Snowden revealed rises to the level of invasiveness that would be cause for alarm.

Most of the people I know simply do not care about surveillance. They're in the ideological majority, they don't have controversial opinions, and they (rightly) believe the government has no interest in using the fruits surveillance against them. They certainly don't sympathize with the ideas of hypothetical political dissidents that might be hypothetically suppressed using surveillance.

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lettergram11y ago

My Dad is the same way, so a few months after first discussing Snowden I decided to write a little satire about living in communist Russia.

It was fairly short, probably 3 pages of dark humor, however he got the point and in now at the very least understands why this is important. I think many Americans (especially those who grew up in the cold war) do not realize how serious this is.

There was a campaign to white wash all the information, NPR, CNN, Fox, they really did not cover the story in a clear cut manner. The fact the government denied everything, and there was an abundance of information shut a lot of people down and out of the conversation.

That being said, every (older - 40+) person I talk to think Snowden was bad, until I ask the question, "Why did we fight the cold war?" You cannot spend decades battling Nazism/Communism only to accept the same practices a decade later. It's pathetic. Often after a clear explanation of what the NSA (or what we know the NSA) actually does, quickly changes their minds.

All they really need is an explanation.

genericresponse11y ago

Well I'm younger and I still think what Snowden did was bad. Moreover, I think you're going a bit far by saying that these are "the same practices" that we fought against in the cold war. I would argue that we don't have nearly the grievances that those living under late 20th century communism did.

My big two are: 1. Food and goods shortages requiring long lines. 2. Extreme restrictions on freedom to travel. (You must have your papers to go to the next town, state, etc.) Overall my biggest issue is that communism sought to convert the entire world and that it was intrusive into its citizen's daily lives.

My big issues with Snowden: 1. Most of this was strongly suspected/known. See the Wired article from 2 years before about the Utah data center. 2. If he did this on principle why not face the consequences of his actions. This has been a principle of resistance for years. 3. The documentation he leaked went beyond the scope of potential constitutional violations into tradecraft and technique. He turned over a treasure trove of information to foreign spy services.

joshstrange11y ago

>> I decided to write a little satire about living in communist Russia.

Is that public anywhere? I'd be interested in reading and potentially passing it on to a few people I know.

talmand11y ago

That's odd, I grew up on the tail end of the Cold War and it seems to me that much of Snowden's accusations of the antics of the US government is up there with the propaganda from the US government itself as to why the Soviet Union was bad.

For a generation that grew up with something like East Berlin and the Berlin Wall thinking that government surveillance isn't bad makes me wonder what level does one have to get to before it's considered bad for the people.

For those that did not live through or remember the Soviet Union collapse and the fall of the Berlin Wall leading to German unification I can understand. It's hard for current generations to understand how truly awful WWII was for the human race as a whole, they simply cannot relate.

sanderjd11y ago

Out of curiosity, what do your dad and the other people you mention think about Daniel Ellsberg? His case seems similar, and history seems to have mostly smiled upon his actions. But of course he stayed in the country and stood trial...

reitzensteinm11y ago

> They certainly don't sympathize with the ideas of hypothetical political dissidents that might be hypothetically suppressed using surveillance.

Like Martin Luther King?

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