If the internet was invented today, we would have AppleMail instead of email and GoogleTrans instead of http.
A possible reason Apple might succeed where Google Wallet failed: Apple have a better track record of telling MNOs to fuck off. It's the reason the software update process is better on iPhone, it's the reason your iPhone doesn't come with carrier bloatware, and it's the reason they can put a secure element in their phone without the MNO being the root of trust.
Also, I haven't had one issue with software updates on my Nexus 5 (which indeed comes bloatware free). If I recall correctly, wasn't the iOS7 update a shit show?
You had CompuServe mail, and Prodigy mail, and AOL mail, and any number of internal mail systems at different companies. There was not a single mail format or agreed upon address space. Getting mail from one system to another was a huge pain.
RFC 822 didn't just come into existence one day.
From what I read, Apple Pay is the following things:
- A management interface to manage payment methods on your device.
- A user interface to interact with these payment methods.
- A set of APIs to interact with these payment methods from software.
- A term for hardware and software components in the iPhone that allow interaction of these payment methods with point of sale hardware.
What Apple Pay is not:
- A payment protocol.
So Apple Pay is a payment method management application. It is not a payment protocol. The payment protocol Apple Pay uses to interface with point of sale terminals is the same EMV protocol that is used for other solutions.
Any other payment method application can also use this same EMV protocol. Many do already in fact, such as Google Wallet. I would not be surprised if Wallet was able to interface with the shown POS hardware with barely any modification to the app.
I hope anyone with more knowledge of this project could confirm this interpretation is correct.
Also it might not be necessary for the involved parties to get together. They could release different protocols. And then the lesser used will be forgotten (like gopher is forgotten today) and the more frequent used will survive (like http has survived).
Update: Why the downvotes?
Really, what's the point?
Adoption. Apple brings it's users... who just seem to adopt Apple features better than competitors' similar features.
If contactless pay is a gordian knot of user vs. merchant adoption, Apple will play the part of Alexander and untie/sever the knot.
2) The credit card gives away data that can be used for fraud. Your phone does not have to do that.
Would they have given early access and bundled the Suica app for instance, they could have boasted millions of users from the get go. I wonder if the upcoming API is even compatible with the Felica standard, but that would be a weird thing to do.
That system is also widely deployed but in my experience (9 years of living there, no evidence other than anecdotal) not widely used.
I think regarding to NFC, it really depends on where you live. I was commuting on a JR line, and having Mobile Suica combine with Edy was such a boon that I could forget my wallet I wouldn't care. Just having your phone means you can ride the train, buy anything at the convince store, pay the restaurant (you may have less choice, but there's a lot of them accepting Edy or another service), buy music or electronics, and buy drinks from vending machines. It's almost surreal how much you can do.
I later moved to the Keikyuu line and it was still great, but less magical.
In terms of technical control, Apple already choose "standard NFC" (at least that's the quote I have on the liveblog), and I would guess they are bound by Visa and Amex for the implementation. A priori Felica is part of the NFC standard, IF it supports the encrypted protocol it should be OK to have everything as third party apps.
I hardly ever carry cash with me anymore when I'm in Japan. Suica and Edy are accepted almost everywhere and it's super convenient. I'm sure it's even better for people who live there because they can get it integrated into their phone, which is not available to tourists like me.
Chrome is complaining that Google Safe browsing detected an ongoing phishing attack.
I have a feeling on the terminal side, it looks just like like a plastic card with PayPass.
I live in a country where banks tend to come up with similar payment technologies at the same time; one example is the Chipknip vs Chipper, both bank card technologies for putting pre-paid amounts of cash on the card to be used to pay without having to enter a PIN or the longish time it took for a regular card payment to process. Didn't take long for the payment terminals to support both platforms.
ATM we've got a similar fight going on; a few banks have contactless payments now, but one bank is going for NFC payments via (very specific models of) smartphones (Samsung Galaxy models; I gathered they're using an already deprecated API/technology for that). But the same argument applies; both technologies use NFC, so all it needs to work is a firmware upgrade.
I've had NFC on Android phones for almost 2 years now, but I've still never been able to use it in the UK. We have some contactless payment terminals now, but the only services that allow you to use NFC payments on your phone here are tied to specific banks/carriers, or only work on specific phones.
I'm hoping that Apple Pay will push more merchants and services to start accepting NFC payments in general.
Also viewing this through the lens that e-commerce view shopping cart conversion rates, this might up initial conversion for new services, which in Uber cases is a win. Just forces everyone to focus more on product.
Does this use the same technology?
PAN = primary account number.
EMV = Europay, MasterCard, Visa. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV
Since the iPhones that have NFC also have TouchID, they can authenticate you instantly without resorting to a PIN. If it works as advertised, it will be a huge improvement over Google Wallet.
(I still think Square got closest to an ideal payment scheme with Pay with Square, where the cashier verifies your face to charge you without requiring you to pull anything out. Too bad they broke it by requiring you to pull out your phone to check-in before it would work.)
1. Timing - 2011 (Wallet release) seems early for consumer NFC, not to mention smartphone penetration ([1] ~30% 2011 to ~70% 2014) and mass market comfort with mobile transactions (Uber, etc.) Wallet may just have been launched too early, they may have educated the market rather than capitalized on it.
2. Existing credit card info - many consumers already give Apple their CC info and payments (iTunes). I can only think of a few examples where you pay Google (Adwords, Google Play) and they are less commonly used.
3. Hype factor - Apple has some magic when it comes to hyping consumer products and services. Google has some of this, but I don't think it's nearly as much, especially with the general population (i.e. non-developers).
[1] http://www.gsmarena.com/asymco_pricing_doesnt_affect_smartph...
So if you get a new iPhone, you're ready to start using it almost immediately. I'm sure I'll use it.
With Android, Google has to get you to sign up for wallet and get you to know that you should want to. Plus you had to have a phone that supports it (I don't know how common that is among high end Android phones).
This is one of those situations where "just being Apple" is a huge advantage.
In any case, hopefully this will force the industry to move forward, particularly on Android.
If merchants are getting new credit card terminals anyhow, it seems likely they'd get NFC compatible ones.
I noticed that the Whole Foods near me just changed their credit card terminals a couple of weeks ago...
Can you explain how they are the same?
1. Say, I have an app that will Apple Pay. So in addition to 30% cut made by Apple for my app will using Apple Pay cost more ?
2. I understand this will require NFC terminal to recognize the payment through Apple Pay but that's in physical store. If I already have some payment method setup for my app why should I choose to use Apple Pay ? or I guess my question is Apple already stores credit cards. While purchasing apps you can already do with one click. How Apple Pay is different ?
Apple Pay won't change anything about purchasing apps / in-app purchases.
Apple Pay won't take a 30% cut of every transaction.
From their website: "Apple Pay lets you use iPhone 6 to pay in stores and within apps in an easy, secure, and private way."
Apple's partners in this, including Visa, Mastercard and Amercian Express, as well as all those prominent banks must have been looking for reassurances that payment and card data was going to be safe.
It must have been an embarassing week.
Considering that Apple/iCloud doesn't store any payment or card data with Apple pay, and that the hack in question wasn't due to any specific weakness in Apple/iCloud infrastructure, I very much doubt there were any reassurances required...
Then you're screwed.
If you have to carry the card anyway to get around this, what's the point other than showing everyone you have an iPhone, which at least in London is a quick way to get cracked over the head.
My phone is already out anywhere I'm buying things. Makes sense to pay with that instead of fishing for something else.
And my gut tells me that this is a secondary reason for why they moved the power button over to the right side of the phone (primary reason being to accommodate smaller hands with the larger screen sizes).
[1] http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/9/6107091/apple-watch-iphone-...
Well it's already available through Stripe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8292026 - so I'm pretty sure there's good news ahead :)
more info: https://developer.apple.com/apple-pay/
There - fixed that for you... Apple sells "(tens of) millions" of iPhones per quarter - and that tends to grow. A couple of years of sales add up to a lot of phones.
I would have loved if they would have gone beyond the marketing messages, and explained in some more detail about how they have made this secure, what improvements they have made (to TouchID etc) over previous versions and how a user can use it without worry.
I think we are seeing a move to Apple <Product Name>, partly because of this and partly because the Apple brand is so strong.
I think this business can eventually become larger than the iTunes if they execute it well.
I couldnt find any information on whether Apple pay users can use this for online purchases or not. If they do this may be their next move will be to naturally be the Paypal competitor.
"The biggest “surprise” over last 2 months is that Apple has squeezed 15-25bps from the 5-6 participating banks at launch (C, BAC, COF, JPM, Amex and perhaps WFC)."
Is it safe to assume that in the future, an iPhone itself can be a device that ACCEPTS payments too?
They're just using existing NFC POS that currently take Google Wallet, there's nothing special about the fact that it takes Apple Pay.
Does that mean there will be an API for 3rd party developers to ACCEPT Apple Pay over the air? Or do they have to build a special Card Reader? Or would they have to bring back an Apple Pay supported Square Wallet app?
i know that nfc can support two-way communication so was wondering if anyone knows offhand if apple's api exposes this option. if so, it should be possible to also accept payment using apple pay (hopefully new ipads get nfc in the next revision to support this).
The biggest “surprise” over last 2 months is that Apple has squeezed 15-25bps from the 5-6 participating banks at launch (C, BAC, COF, JPM, Amex and perhaps WFC).
Mainly they exploited the fact that the FindMyIphone website did not throttle the number of login attempts. So you can do it as many times as possible. Apple deflected this by "denying" that any usernames or passwords were leaked, but in reality it is their fault that the accounts were compromised.
Pay Apple.