Does tech discriminate against suits? (opens in new tab)

It's funny - IMHO the Hoodie Uniform was developed because people didn't seem to care about fashion or the clothes they were wearing - the stereotypical devs. I can also see how this has come full circle now though, as I think to my own office and if anyone did come in a suit, they would stick out like a sore thumb.

On one level, it seems to be a shame - suits do show a kind of respect or reverence for the place of work. On another, I think suits have their place, but as work places aim to make their offices more people friendly (some would say to keep them in the office longer) people's attires will naturally mold to fit the environment. Perhaps the dying out of the suit is something of a reflection of modern work practices and should be just seen as another item of clothing someone chooses to wear, without the significance of it being 'smart' or 'formal'.

Funny how things circle and change, and sometimes, like political parties, end up flipping completely over a generation or two.

I suppose the original reason tech rebelled against the suit was because a suit represented conformity, an aggressively enforced dress code. Now, I suppose you could say that tech aggressively enforces a casual dress code, to the point where wearing a suit becomes an act non-conformity. I'm not joking here, the blog post is absolutely right, wearing a suit may seem mildly eccentric in a tech company. I see various people (including coworkers) wearing suits, and there is a counter-culture element to it. Suits are worn in different forms at the Dickens fair, by jazz and ska musicians (and people in the audience), and by other counter-cultural types (there was a guy who worked at Peet's coffee who always wore a suit and bowler hat).

SF is a place where this is particularly mixed up, since SF was probably the most east coast-ish of west coast cities where it came to wearing suits as part of the old dress code, and there are still a few more conservative industries here (banking, law) where suits are work as part of the older formal work culture than a new countercultural trend.

As for me? I like suits, I think they look great. I have never been required to wear a suit to work, so I never really associated them with conformity (I wore them mainly at weddings and a very few parties, so I have positive connotations). Like Greg Foster (author of the post), people would give me a strange look if I wore a suit to the office, but now that I think about it, there actually is one guy who wears a suit to the office every day...

Being a meekly frustrated warrior like many modern men, I sometimes imagine the process of putting a suit on in the morning as akin to donning chain mail and plate armor before a battle. Certainly it helps me get in the right frame of mind for the day, and when I get home the kids know I'll need to swap it for 'play clothes' before I'll roll around on the floor with them. I've worn a suit everywhere I've worked, even in casual companies on client-free days. It helps to enforce a separation between work and home which is, for me, a critical part of work/life balance.

Edited to add: you've already noticed the positive attention it's got you from senior management. This will only continue. And, until you can afford the real thing, I can wholeheartedly recommend having custom suits made by one of the visiting Hong Kong tailors which stop through every major city. They're inexpensive and the fit will be significantly better than off-the-peg. They won't last years but you'll get to pick every detail, and you can have a lot of fun with lining fabrics if you're not in consulting or law.

I think the problem is that most developers tend to be the nerdy types who didn't care much for fashion as a kid, or have the money in college to look good. Now they're in the workforce and they feel validated for dressing like shit: hoodies and pajamas are cute every once in a while but seriously, grow up and dress yourself like you're gonna get laid one of these days.

The way I see it, if you code, chances are you've got some coin. Find a look that matches your personality and stick to it. Plaid? Go for it. All black? Can't hurt. Vest and tie? Lookin' good. It doesn't have to be perfect, just wear what works. And for the love of God, even if you wear college clothes for the rest of your life, invest in a decent pair of shoes.

Ironically, the root of a lot of hacker culture is non-conformity. Jeans and a hoodie are a conformist statement if everyone else does it, whether you like it or not. And ask yourself why comfy clothing that can be slept in is promoted in work environments that prefer you to always be at the office.

My rule of thumb: dress the way you'd like to be seen by someone you want hiring or sleeping with you.

Nice write-up. Reminds me of the Steve Jobs portrayal on the excellent Pirates of Silicon Valley movie. Jobs and the other rebels mocked the "IBM types" in suits. Got nowhere in business world as "suits" dominated financing. Eventually, Jobs changes his appearance to look like a suit outwardly while inwardly being a rebel. Once successful, he reverts a bit to go back to rebellious appearance when inside of Apple while mocking IBM types and suits once again. While one suit with great poker skills, esp bluffing, straight up took his stuff and made a fortune off it working with other suits. That was Gates.

All in all, just goes to show that what a person could do was always more important than what they wore. Even worse, people often dress to deceive: pushing an image intended to influence observer for wearer's selfish benefit. Also called "dress for success." So, I have a bias where I watch out for that kind of thing. Interesting enough, Silicon Valley does the same thing with their dress styles aiming to fit in. Gets to the point that it's almost a survival strategy where people often wear expected stuff to avoid getting filtered out due to appearance.

Props to Greg for simply wearing what he liked and letting his actions speak louder than his words. He and Jonathan have nice suits, too. Reminds me I need to buy another one as I rarely wear a suit and occasionally like how it looks/feels. I'll be sure to get whatever style everyone else isn't wearing to satisfy the rebel in me. :)

To answer the question: maybe, somewhat? There's a pretty big difference between that and an actual dress code though, which is far worse. Wearing a suit at a tech company might draw a few weird glances or comments, but it won't get you fired outright. Wearing casual clothes at a bank will.

The fact that the culture isn't absolutely, consistently accepting is unfortunate, but it's much better than what came before.

I'm sure a bias exists, but it's subtle. It's the sort of thing that if you expect, you'll see more.

> They smile when the quirky and brilliant hacker wears pajamas and rollerblades to the office, but when they meet the coder in a suit, their polite expressions falter for a second.

Polite expressions faltering? That's the sort of thing you'll find if you're looking for it, whether it's there or not. A person wearing pajamas would have a larger effect in absolute terms; the difference is relative: a tech company would be more accepting of pajamas than you'd expect and less so of suits.

> As long as I can remember my father would work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, wearing a suit to the office. I’ve always wanted to follow his example.

What!? This is not something to be admired!

I like to wear my suit to work a few times per year, just on random days. I've been approached by higher ups more than once with the question "Are you interviewing somewhere else?" First time I got a kick out of it, but after reflecting decided that it was a good way to send a subtle message now and then.

A photo caption from the article: "Silicon Valley vs Mad Men — who would you rather be?"

But Mad Men is a show largely about its characters' bad behavior--their casual bigotry, crass money-grubbing, etc. If you're wearing a suit because you want to be Don Draper, you're not just a poor interpreter of television; you're probably a pretty poor excuse for a person.

I don't have anything against suits, per se. I'd point out that there are a lot of points on the spectrum between full-casual and a suit, though. I tend to wear business casual; comfortable, flattering, not too expensive. But it feels pretty grotesque to complain that you're being discriminated against for choosing to wear expensive, tailored clothing, especially when there are people really suffering discrimination because of their gender or the color of their skin.

This post reminds me of the 42Floors blog post from a while ago:

Another quick story before I really dive into this blog post. We had a gentleman over to interview for one of our account executive positions at 42Floors. He had strong experience leasing SF office space: great resume, great cover letter, did well in our initial phone screen.

When he walked in the door, we could hear the clacking of his shoes on our hardwood floor. He was dressed impeccably in a suit that probably cost more than my first car and was carrying one of those leathery-thingys that seemed to exist only for the purpose of being carried during interviews.

I stole a glance to a few of the people from my team who had looked up when he walked in. I could sense the disappointment.

We’re all happily wearing blue jeans and sneakers. It’s not that we’re so petty or strict about the dress code that we are going to disqualify him for not following an unwritten rule, but we know empirically that people who come in dressed in suits rarely work out well for our team.

He was failing the go-out-for-a-beer test and he didn’t even know it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20140618142018/http://blog.42floo...

It probably isn't read as a "Red Sneakers Effect" and so it doesn't serve you in the eyes of peers---even if idiosyncratic.

http://reagle.org/joseph/2015/merit/merit.html#geek-superior...

The company I work for is extremely casual, but there are couple who wear suits to work every day (though sans tie) and nobody much care. That said if wear a suit at a conference then my first guess is not that you are a programmer, unless you do something else to highlight that you code for a living.

I've noticed it's less about the suit and more about the tie. If I wear a suit without a tie to work, I get some compliments, but when I wear a tie, with or without a suit, the CEO will start joking that I'm going to a job interview later on.

A suit is just clothes. A tie is a statement.

My personal experience is that tech folks tend to forget about clothing very quickly if you're actually competent.

If you go around throwing buzzwords everywhere, tech people make fun of you. If you also wear a suit while throwing around buzzwords, well, all the more fun.

Hello privilege assertion.