I also constantly hear from people who are in these sorts of roles that they would 'kill' for the technical background that an engineer has (as that would make them more effective).
Now there is me, with SRE and DevOps background, who applies for product owner, technical project manager, or any sort of similar role as described above, and can not for the life of me figure out why I keep getting "upsold" engineering roles instead, when I am very explicit about applying for the less technical ones. Is it true that there is really no world for a technologist to transition into one of these less technical roles? Does anyone know what the secret sauce is here (besides the line item on the job description that asks for "having been a product owner/<INSERT TITLE> for X years at a previous company")?
What can I, as someone who is in engineering, and would like to do one of these sorts of jobs instead, do at application/interview time to demonstrate that I am a good choice/fit?
What I've seen happen successfully time and time again is an "unofficial" transition that then turns "official" when you change companies. The way it always works is to find a project that doesn't have a PM for whatever reason but could really use one, and slowly become the "effective" unofficial PM once you join the team by taking on PM tasks that are blocking the team. Your manager's probably not gonna say no to things that urgently need doing but there isn't approval for an official PM.
Then start interviewing at other companies for PM roles and explain "well I was never an official PM but I did all the PM work like x, y, z". They don't care what your title is, PM's are known for transitioning from every other job under the sun.
I mean, that's how a lot of promotions work anyways -- first you demonstrate you're already performing at the next level, then you get it officially. It's just that the eng-to-PM transition isn't recognized officially at a lot of places, so you need to do it cross-company.
I don’t know the secret sauce for breaking in. I’m sure that once you are in your background will be super helpful. What I have noticed is that:
- applying for jobs as a PM has a very low response rate
- if a recruiter contacts you, then your chances are much improved
- most PMs I know somehow transitioned into it via some lateral type move
With the above in mind, I’d suggest:
- update your LinkedIn profile to say that you are interested in PM roles, maybe that would help with keyword matches
- contact recruiters directly
- see if you can switch to a PM role internally
I've successfully hired one person doing this transition, but that was to be a technical product manager. For everything else, I would skip your resume. If you want me to be interested, you need to be a PM for a year plus somewhere else.
My rationale:
1. as expensive and painful as eng hires are to get wrong, they have nothing on PM hires.
2. I have no idea if you actually like the work, and neither do you. It is very different from eng work.
3. I have no idea if you are capable of talking to customers and prospects. Capable can span a lot of things, but includes doesn't freeze up, can think on their feet, and doesn't say really dumb shit to customers (I have eng that got exposure to prospects and managed to talk the prospect out of buying by the way they presented info).
4. Frankly, PM roles often pay less, particularly as compared to senior eng. That fact does not work in your favor, because I'm basically guesstimating if you're worth 3-6 months of my time to spin up on a product.
Finally, your other issue may be that companies simply hire a lot more eng -- 6-10x or more.
As has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread, your best bet (imo) is to transition at your current employer.
ps -- nothing written in your post demonstrates much effort on your part. That's another huge turnoff were I to ponder investing my time into you.
Here is my feedback to two of your points:
1. Totally acknowledge the 3-6 month ramp up time for a product, but engineers can easily take that long to be productive and fluent around the technology stack, so I would argue that unless you are hiring a domain specialist, a generalist of any sort will take that time and be a risk for around that long.
2. I acknowledge your PS and I intentionally did not this post a huge backstory because that is what an interview is for, and the point I was making by asking this question was how to even get to that point.
3. As another poster indicated (and as I am aware since I’ve been working for awhile now); obviously it’s easier to make a non-standard transition in your current organization, but it isn’t possible if your org/team doesn’t hire for these roles or if you’ve joined a team where there is already someone entrenched in that role. So in that regard, I believe going across-orgs is probably an easier move, and appreciate everyone’s advice in that direction.
re, the ps -- if you've invested time, you should present that before the interview (at least in my case).
In your case, maybe you could have some luck digging up a manager who needs a pm (or even an EM who doesn't have a strong pm) and transferring to that team? Your other bet may be early startups who are more free to take a flyer on someone, esp an api-heavy startup. ala zapier or competitors. Or hell, start a company; that's how I became a pm.
1. Do or say you did the work
2. Actually know what the work is -- be able to speak comfortably about the lingo processes etc artifacts ceremonies what does a daily standup actually look like how do you run your entire process which days are for which ceremonies do you always run all ceremonies which tools do you use how do you deal w an engineer not getting stuff done etc etc
3. Apply to roles with 'technical' in the name, because that is your leverage and they out that title there because the position has failed in the hands of a non technical product owner
Side note
Product owner easier to get than product Mgr for a bunch of reasons
Much more plentiful these days
The projects are internal so the whole external customer interviewing skillset goes away, all the market analysis, etc
You have to be willing to say you're a great communicator of course and depending on the job you LOVE agile and scrum and all that they stand for
You have to feel out your interviewer on that stuff
https://jobs.lever.co/disqo/c2921218-1853-4d37-9dfe-d060db55...
Trick is to talk to all the existing product managers, and their managers, ahead of application/interview time and figure out what they need, when, and why.
Do that, and the application/interview will be a formality.
To be a "product owner", own the product.
The link[0] is a reply to someone who wanted "more interesting work". It starts with links to support the pointers given at the bottom of that post.
Once you do that, you can formally ask for the role.
Perhaps a factor is the level of complexity of the project in question, influencing the practicality of such a dual focus.
https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-get-into-product-m...
I think you would be "upsold" to engineering because its where they believe they'll get the most value out of you.
2. Know exactly who can do what and get them to do it
3. Convince the execs you have a plan and prove it with improving numbers.
Unfortunately, there is no way to pass it... it would be a waste of time to try and hack it :)
We would probably hire you right now :)
Every role requires different skills but if you have been in the job market for a while, you probably also have some of those skills already. It is important to research the role you'd like to have and objectively analyze the skills you lack and the proficiencies you have that you can lean on.
For example I know sales, marketing, and graphic design, and that makes me one hell of a copywriter. There are better writers out there for sure, but I can edit my writing a million times to make it look decent. Yet, my understanding of sales and marketing trumps the thought processes of many copywriters, and my design background makes me understand how the text I have written can be utilized. I can also help with either one of these skills in an emergency.
I don't wait for somebody to give me the job. As some likeminded individuals advised in the comments, as soon as I am sure that I want to change what I am doing as a job, I start doing the tasks related to that job. When I was a graphic designer, I started offering changes to the copy we are getting. I started working closely with the editors and made sure that they know that they can trust me to help them. I became their go to guy in the department when they need help.
I work hard to get the necessary skills for the task. I spend my private time to master the tasks that the new occupation requires.
I market myself, my desires, my loyalty and my skills. Show that you want to move towards that area and also that you are working hard to learn about it. If you want to stay at the company you are working at, make sure that you say that you love the company, but you think that the other role might be more suitable for you.
I change the work of the other department for the better in ways that only I can. Provide a lot of value in the other occupation you'd like to do for free. Do the basic tasks nobody wants to do, help them solve their bottlenecks. While doing that do your normal job perfectly as well. Do not get demotivated. Just do both jobs at the same time and show everyone that you are capable.
If you do this for some time, the management starts to see that you are working hard on improving the company and an asset. In my experience, this alone is not enough to make the change, because usually there is someone else doing the job already, and you might have to work doing part of their job for a long time before they resign or get fired and management(whom you have been showing your desire and skill) might consider you for that position. That's rare and I wouldn't depend on it.
But don't be hopeless. You are coming from another occupation and you probably have skills others lack. Find out what is your unique proposition. Mine was English. The company I work for has to communicate with a lot of expats and ambassadors and even though we have a huge translation department, nobody could write eloquently enough in English. I could communicate in English to a certain degree and I can also do all the other tasks that are required from copywriters. Voila! Matchmaking in heaven!
There will be sacrifices you will have to make to succeed, but I hope that in the end you will achieve your target. Every time I was in the middle of a career change, I feel all this effort and sacrifice aren't worth it; I can just enjoy what I have. I don't succumb to that feeling and work harder.
You are the only one who can decide if the prize at the end worth the sacrifices along the way.
Basically the first step is start to think you are a product manager. Read the low quality crap your current product managers produced. It will turn out not to be to rocket science.
