Conversely when 99.9% of the software you use in your daily life is blazing fast C / C++, having to do anything in other stacks is a complete exercise in frustration, it feels like going back a few decades in time
Lastly, people think C++ is not user friendly. No, it certainly is. It needs being careful, yes, but a lot of things can be done in less lines then people expect.
But I do have to say that I never managed to really get into python, it always just felt like to much of a hassle, thus I always avoided it if possible.
I’m gonna need an example because I do not believe this whatsoever.
Try writing a matmul operation in C++ and profile it against the same thing done in Numpy/Pytorch/TensorFlow/Jax. You’ll be surprised.
Have you ever tried Rust? Compared to C++, it's like heaven
Have you ever tried Rust? Compared to C++, it's like lawyer speech vs poetry
I like writing things in python. It honestly feels like cheating at times. Being able to reduce things down to a list comprehension feels like wizardry.
I like having things written in C/C++. Because like every deep magic, there's a cost associated with it.
because what you wrote could be said about using C++ in the context of dev experience
10 compilers, IDEs, debuggers, package managers
and at the end of the day LLVM compiles 30min and uses tens of GBs of RAM on average hardware
I don't believe that this is the best we can get.
I mean, that's the initial build.
Here's my compile-edit-run cycle in https://ossia.io which is nearing 400kloc, with a free example of performance profiling, I haven't found anything like this whenever I had to profile python. It's not LLVM-sized of course, but it's not a small project either, maybe in the medium-low C++ project size: https://streamable.com/o8p22f ; pretty much a couple seconds at most from keystroke to result, for a complete DAW which links against Qt, FFMPEG, LLVM, Boost and a few others. Notice also how my IDE kindly informs me of memory leaks and other funsies.
C/C++ Header 2212 29523 17227 200382
C++ 1381 34060 13503 199259
"10 compilers, IDEs, debuggers, package managers" what are you talking about? (Virtually) No one uses ten different tools to build one application. I don't even know of any C++-specific package managers, although I do know of language-specific package managers for... oh, right, most scripting languages. And an IDE includes a compiler and a debugger, that's what makes it an IDE instead of a text editor.
"and at the end of the day LLVM compiles 30min and uses tens of GBs of RAM on average hardware" sure, if you're compiling something enormous and bloated... I'm not sure why you think that's an argument against debloating?
I meant you have a lot of choices to make
Instead of having one strong standard which everyone uses, you have X of them which makes changing projects/companies harder, but for solid reason? I don't know.
>"and at the end of the day LLVM compiles 30min and uses tens of GBs of RAM on average hardware" sure, if you're compiling something enormous and bloated... I'm not sure why you think that's an argument against debloating?
I know that lines in repo aren't great way to compare those things, but
.NET Compiler Infrastructure:
20 587 028 lines of code in 17 440 files
LLVM:
45 673 398 lines of code in 116 784 files
The first one I built (restore+build) in 6mins and it used around 6-7GB of RAM
The second I'm not even trying because the last time I tried doing it on Windows it BSODed after using _whole_ ram (16GBs)
No. I feel there is great developer experience in many high performance languages: Java, C#, Rust, Go, etc.
In fact, for my personal tastes, I find these languages more ergonomic than many popular dynamic languages. Though I will admit that one thing that I find ergonomic is a language that lifts the performance headroom above my head so that I'm not constantly bumping my head on the ceiling.
I mean what if there are features that take significant % of whole time
What if getting rid of them could decrease perf by e.g 4%, but also decrease comp. time by 30%
would it be worth?