Laptops are getting there with the compute power, but the 27" monitors aren't getting any smaller. Meta Quest Pro(which seems to be the top of the line now) has been just released and even tho it is somewhat pricey($1500), it still costs as much as three good 27" monitors.
Does anyone have any useful experience to share on working in a VR headset? Is it comfortable for longer periods of time? How is it on the eyes?
I tried for about 18 hours each device to work in VR. Many things are not there yet. My vive is attached to a 5 monitor dual GPU beast that drives a central 144hz 4k HDR 43" and 5 2560x144 monitors. The vive couldn't touch the physical setup for comfort or resolution or just non-fussiness. I constantly had to adjust virtual monitors. In real world I just scootch a quarter inch on my rolly cHair. It's like the first time you setup a physical workspace every time you use it for me. Vive gets warm.
The quest 2 is too low resolution and too laggy. Battery too weak. It was a joy to take it off. Quest is more sweaty.
With the quest I worked from a RV for 3 days. It sucked.
What worked better was just 2 pelican cases with monitors and a discounted ups rate. In the RV I just shoved them in the corner and pulled them out when we parked. When I visit my mom or airbnb I just ship them to where I'm going. Was a massive relief. Maybe in a few years.
It's not just pixel density, it's software, weight, latency, fiddlelyness.
Similar some of the applications and steam sometimes surprisingly want internet connectivity and so some of the desktop applications also will lock themselves out randomly
Am I reading it correctly you are trying to use VR in a vehicle while someone is driving?
I get car sick very easily when riding. I also get motion sickness when using VR. I cannot imagine being affected by both at the same time.
Yeah we were driving across Texas going to a lake and I was sitting in the passenger seat so I figured I would try out and see how it worked. It did not it freaked out constantly. I think if you had a vibe with a laser tracking system it would actually work but that would be interesting to mount inside of a suburban.
One of my favorite things I ever did was sitting in the bendy middle section of a bus in Seattle which constantly moves while going up and down the hills and playing super stardust HD on Vita that almost got me.
On a more serious note since this is not Reddit, I have watched movies in VR during bus trips (6h long routes). It works, it's way better than looking at laptop/tablet/phone.
Through the lens comparison g2 vs Index vs Quest 2
If looking at a page of text, only the middle of 3 or 4 lines of text are in perfect focus. The rest might be readable but blurry. You have to move your head to scan lines comfortably and that is far from acceptable. I tried all the tricks to increase the size of the sweetspot to little avail.
The tracking on the Reverb has a bad reputation and I've avoided it for that reason mainly - as well as the extra complexity resulting from using one more translation layer (Windows MR > SteamVR) and a minority platoform.
I did try the quest 2 on a plane and it worked well, apart from when the plane was turning or in turbulence. I suppose the visual tracking makes an assumption that the world is static, which is usually true but breaks down when the plane is bouncing up and down.
"I Spent Hundreds of Hours Working in VR"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29978036
and
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28678041
The latter discussing this classic "Working from Orbit" article (below) has been linked before, but it's from a clear fan, which is not necessarily representative. But it demonstrates it works for some - and that's with the Quest 2.
https://medium.com/immersedteam/working-from-orbit-39bf95a6d...
I haven't tried it myself extensively, but personally I think the tech and software is not quite there yet for full comfort and practicality (eg text legibility) - at least on a plug-and-play level - for the average interested user.
There are upgrades that you really need: A better head strap, ideally one with an adjustment knob at the back to easily loosen and tighten the headset. Also one with an extra battery that both gives you longer unplugged time but more importantly balances the headset front to back.
And a better headset/face interface. You can get one that is much softer and thicker, which puts less pressure on the face and moves the screens a few extra mm away. They also have vented interfaces, which help cut down on the problem of getting hot face.
And lastly, you know how all the experts advise that when you're working you stop and take a break to look away from your screens every 20 minutes or so? It's more important in VR to heed that advice. All you have to do is slip off the headset (you got the easy to adjust one that just slides right off, right?), take ten seconds to look at something far away our out the window, and then put it back on and keep working.
If you do all that, there are a lot of great products out that that will give you great virtual monitors and keyboards.
You're pretty much describing the Quest Pro. This part also matches the Quest 2 with Elite Battery Strap for what it's worth, but the Quest Pro also matches your next criteria, whereas the Quest 2 didn't.
> And a better headset/face interface. You can get one that is much softer and thicker, which puts less pressure on the face and moves the screens a few extra mm away. They also have vented interfaces, which help cut down on the problem of getting hot face.
The Quest Pro only attaches at the top on the forehead, is open air by default and further away from the face, and for example I can comfortably fit it over my glasses, which I couldn't do on the Quest 2.
It's a huge step up in comfort for long sessions, although you'd still want to attach a USB-C power cable for anything beyond a couple of hours.
Disclaimer: I work at Meta but not on anything VR related, this is based on my own experience as a personal user of VR headsets.
Speaking as a user of a heavily comfort-modded Quest 2 and recent Pro owner: the Pro is surprisingly comfortable (especially with the below lifehack) and mostly on par with a Quest 2 with a modded Bobo halo strap.
Craziest thing about the Quest Pro is that you can (carefully) pop off the back cushion and flip it. I highly recommend anyone with a Pro try it out since it’s significantly more comfortable and brings a very noticeable increase in FoV.
There’s a thread about this on one of the Quest subreddits - and there’s not a single comment from anyone who prefers the stock placement. It does make aligning the charging dock a bit finicky but otherwise it’s kind of strange that Meta chose the other cushion direction as the default.
IMO, until VR gets the size and weight of safety goggles you need the device to rest on your forehead. The PSVR is still the single most comformtable VR system that's shipped because there is no pressure on your face whatsoever.
Apparently you can get these for Quest 2. Here's one. Don't own a Quest 2 though so I haven't tried it
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B599S56K
I go have a Rift S. It tried to copy PSVR but failed to make it as good. You have really crank the back of the head strap below the ridge of the back of your head to get the HMD to rest on your forehead and not your face, and then it slowly slides and it's back to resting on your face.
Let me also add, if the thing requires a strap that goes over the top of your head then it's a fail!
This configuration is called a "halo" strap.
I also have the Quest Pro now. It comes with a halo strap. Nothing touches your cheeks. Resolution is also very high, and the new pancake lenses are very clear.
That's another problem with older headsets. The Fresnel lenses in previous systems cause "god rays" around any bright objects on dark backgrounds. Like, say, light text on a dark background for a dark-mode UI.
Pancake lenses don't have that problem. They also have a much larger sweet spot, so you don't have to get the headset perfectly adjusted every time, and you can look around with just your eyes, not moving your head, more.
I think the Vive Flow was the first commercially available headset to use the pancake lenses, but the Flow is otherwise not a great experience. The Quest Pro is really impressive.
Then unless you spend $$$ for very high end hardware with high resolution (4k on a headset != 4k on a monitor!) you will not be able to work efficiently.
There are also many problems with the applications and usability of the entire stack when it comes to doing actually productive work.
Everything I have found in VR land assumes internet connectivity, demands a login/PII, and transmits data back to the mothership against my will.
But it’s also not yet perfect
I haven’t tried it in wired mode but wireless has a bit of latency (which is fine for coding and other productivity stuff but not workable for games for example)
It’s really nice that it’s easy to switch between pass through to see your environment and VR mode to be able to focus and not get distracted
It’s early but def where things are headed if you ask me!
At home I have a 8k screen which is hard to beat…but just a matter of time until VR can match that resolution IMO
But I can see they sell an upgraded facial interface that is billed as "full light blocking", which usually means thicker and softer, so they probably at least have that accessory. I doubt any other accessories exist yet, since it's too new and not a big enough market.
I still don't think the systems are 'there', yet. But I feel that I can finally see the way forward to real success.
[edit] I have the older version of this Bobovr fan:
The experience was flawed but many things worked surprisingly well. I was getting fed up with just having one screen and having four low-resolution screens was really useful for some things. I could have slack on one screen, VSCode in the centre, my calendar or documentation on the left and my personal recreational browser and music Windows on my right (I eventually moved this to the top because otherwise it was covering the corridor where family members walked past and I preferred to see them using pass-through than being completely oblivious to the outside world).
Is it a very small screen for an IDE and is text blurry? Yes both. But text right in front of your head is quite clear. You have to scan your head to read lots, but most of the time a suggestion of the surrounding text is enough to get by. You also have to change your idea of "sharp text" it's better to use something like cool-retro-term or zoomed in browser to get text that's knowingly large and fuzzy.
I wear glasses but have VROptician lenses and a Bobovr headstrap. The batteries would have died before I became uncomfortable.
The most important observation is that I didn't jump back in to VR once the batteries were charged or the next morning, but I'm glad to have a multi monitor option that fits in my cabin luggage, and cost a free hundred pounds, for when I'm doing a task that would be a total pain on one monitor.
did you have to use windows to get VR to work in a mac? Steam vr does not work on a mac natively afaik.
Never really thought about being one to many along.
Thanks!
In Immersed VR there are no tech specs, if that's what you mean. Though I am using a "headless" HDMI connector, which I think gets me an extra monitor without having to pay monthly for Immersed.
If this becomes workable then it would allow me to attain a dream of proper remote working, taking longer holidays to cities and such with the wife, without taking annual leave. Probably a pipedream :p
It feels like a wall height screen about 8-10 feet in front of you. Perhaps a little bigger would be good, but it isn't that too small.
The resolution of 1920x1080 is ok. I wish it was higher. And it doesn't support AR monitors (the 1920x1080 in the glasses a mirror of the iPad - except for blink .. - the demos for android are much nicer with AR windows places in physical space)
The setup I'm testing:
- nreal 1920x1080 nreal air
- usb-c plugged into an ipad mini + cellular
- tailscale allows me to remote into my desktop computer
- with bluetooth keyboard and mouse
- and then blink app to tmux (or perhaps vscode - I haven't tried it yet)
It feels much better than my experiments with Quest2 VR desktop. And when I am able to just work within a single app (blink, safari, ...) it is a good experience. My biggest struggle is iPad os - inconsistent keyboard shortcuts even in apple applications.
I'd like to try a tiny raspberry pi like device that allows remote-ssh vscode + remote tmux + streaming chrome (vnc or perhaps https://www.mightyapp.com) - but the hardware needs to support USB-C Display Port.
Perhaps a DIY powered by Framework mainboard... https://twitter.com/FrameworkPuter/status/156912081380642406...
Overall, it is still promising and I'm going to keep trying until end of January - to see if this is a good to take anywhere to code/dev/mosh. For a V1 of this experience it exceeds expectations (and is much better than quest2 for me)
On the Nreals, the small FOV means the pixel density is much better than the alternatives.
The combination of FoV and the resolution really isn’t there, I struggle reading text through it vs a 27” 1440p desktop monitor I have on the same PC. I really couldn’t imagine reading text for any length of time in VR.
(Edit: I just realised you were comparing to AR, not desktop, sorry.)
One thing i didn't anticipate is how hard it is to do the equivalent of alt+tabbing to a reference document or similar and then jumping back to the main program in use in VR. Context switching is important for productivity and probably can't really be done right without remaking the whole desktop environment for vr. I would wait at least 5 years before expecting anything to be viable as a full monitor replacement.
I bought the entry level Quest 2 to evaluate the feasibility of this about a year ago. These are some of my insights (that might not apply 100% to Quest Pro):
- The resolution was too poor to comfortably read anything on two displays arranged about the same way as two horizontal 27" monitors side by side. This ultimately killed the whole effort.
- Without good passthrough, using a keyboard and mouse is a bit difficult.
- There is finger tracking, but I found the controllers to be more accurate. So I needed to keep the controllers on my desk.
- There is a bit of motion sickness that either goes away after a few days of use or reduces a bit. For me, I could never get over the motion sickness. But it wasn't very bad after a couple days of use.
- The screen door effect was very noticeable for me on Quest 2.
- It was possible to up the resolution and refresh rate of Quest 2 using developer options on the PC with some third-party software. With that, the headset might become uncomfortably warm to wear.
- The WiFi 6 wireless VR was surprisingly much better than expected. But it will definitely not be a good experience with typical hotel Wifi - not even close.
I was pretty happy to spend about £300 on a Quest 2 to try it for work. I then sold it for about £250. £50 to try this work mode for a few weeks was worth it. I chose not to go with VR for work at the time. I would suggest trying it yourself in some way similar to this. Perhaps not buying it but borrowing someone's VR headset for a bit, or going to one of the VR venues and just seeing how comfortable it is and what kind of resolution you might get?
The main thing was I couldn't make the virtual screen be as good as the physical ones, and being able to see to type - I'm not at the complete touch type level - especially without reference points.
The difference is I haven't sold mine, it is still here to try some VR gaming, which I also haven't got roudn to get.
My summary is I was impressed with what the technology can do, but it's not a replacement if you have a well set up desk.
https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/k830-illum...
I didn’t notice the screen door effect on Quest 2, only the low resolution for reading text
This is our first foray into hardware, but we already developed a stable Linux VR Desktop (https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula) from 2017-2021.
We try to provide frequent updates on our hardware engineering progress. For example, here's a recent post showing some videos of our review units: https://simulavr.com/blog/first-glimpse-of-review-units/ If you're interested in community discussion, you might also check out https://hn.algolia.com/?q=simulavr.com.
Not yet, you can follow their progress at their blog (https://simulavr.com/blog/).
Meta lifted its ban on this, they will be able to ship! Also, has mucch better pixel density than quest headsets, even quest pro. Will be a bliss to read on. But provably no propper head tracking
In the pictures and video, the headset the guy is wearing is probably light and without a display to vertically align his sight on.
I imagine they're trying to avoid the strap to make it more stylish to enable its use in public settings, but if it ends up being uncomfortable or hard to focus through, that would really hurt all other values it offers. It's meant primarily for work, so one should be able to stay on it for hours. Wonder how things will turn out.
Worst-case though, adding a strap is probably not too difficult of a mod.
I'm going to re-try using Immersed as well, I haven't figured out a great way to address the latency in the office yet.
Obviously, working at Meta means showing up as an avatar to a meeting isn't seen as a big or unique deal (usually more than one person in every meeting is an avatar). I do think video of someone's face is WAY more expressive than an avatar.
If you bought a Quest and thought you can finally watch NSFW content at work, remember that Zuckerberg is now watching over your shoulder.
And he might even be looking at the code you write.
Horizon workrooms was like using a Mac - it “just works” when I onboarded, less features but way less hassle. I much prefer it personally.
How were you projected? Was everyone else looking at a person gazing vaguely in the direction of the camera and obscured by a bulky headset?
That's fascinating, but it makes sense. I wonder how much of "Zoom fatigue" is caused by feeling you need more personal space, and could be mitigated by just having the screen be (or seem to be) the distance away that a normal human would.
You could probably get pretty far with floating screens rather than the whole avatar thing. They'd all still be staring at you when they talk to each other though.
I was a complete Meta disbeliever and long time Quest owner, having put a few dozen hours into working in Immersed last year before putting it down and accepting it wasn’t good enough.
Fast forward to last weekend, give it a try with the setup described above instead. Proceeded to do a 9hr shift fully in VR. Went out, got the Pro, and now I am all in. We are there. Give it a shot, you can always return it right?
Also +1 to everything jedberg said in their comment, great advice.
I embraced a single-monitor workflow early in my career after experimenting and finding that having multiple monitors often makes me less productive than just switching workspaces with ⌘+tab. Now it's extended to a single-laptop workflow that's given me incredible flexibility to travel and move around the office.
When do people really need multiple monitors? My only guesses are if they're using Windows, or have a really short feedback loop workflow between two apps that are too big/awkward to share a screen? Which, I guess OP could be in both boats.
There are many more similar use cases.
I like having Email+IM on a vertical monitor on the side. If someone contacts me, I always have this communication screen, and I can respond to people without forgetting what I was working on. On my laptop, I press Cmd-Tab and everything is gone.
I also like having a second monitor above my main monitor just for source control. It's always there, so I can review changes while leaving the source files I was working on visible on my main monitor.
I also work a lot with VMs, and seing them all at the same time makes it easier to work with them.
It's much easier if you can lay out your work on a big area, and when every task has its own designated place.
I also work a lot on a single laptop when I'm not at the office, and I feel way less productive. I spend way more time trying to remember what I wanted to do, because stuff always disappears when I press Cmd-Tab.
Also a drop down quake style terminal with multiple tabs provides the same rapid access functionality for the command line.
IMO, assuming OP is using this setup for software development, it has to be a very specific short feedback loop to really justify 2 monitors, something that can't easily tested as part of a test suite such as layout testing which might require specific resolution and thus either constant switching or two monitors. I can't think of many other situation, even in web development, when one cannot make a good use window managers and testing components in isolation to avoid constant switching.
Despite having used 2 monitors in the past on occasion, I found that I've only used it to compensate for not taking the time to perfect my workflow or test-suite in such way that would allow me to be productive.
The only real use case where I can now personally justify the usage of two monitors is for in-person pair-programming: mirroring the display allows both participants to position themselves in front of the monitor rather than at an odd angle which over time strains both necks and eyes. Yet both can sit close enough to allow effective face-to-face communication.
For me a laptop screen is simply not usable for more than 2 windows, and sometimes I would like to reference 3-4 windows. Sometimes even 2 is too much on the laptop screens.
Alt tab doesn't work because now one window is partially hidden behind the other.
I've also experimented extensively with tiling, which doesn't really help my issue at all, I simply need two monitors to be as productive as I can be.
Even doing a single regular 4k monitor was stretching it for me, but my current setup satisfies me almost perfectly. The only upgrade I am planning to do in that aspect in the future is replacing it with an AR/VR headset that can emulate screens at a good enough resolution. While the current VR/AR tech isn't there yet, it is getting closer and closer, which gives me a lot of hope. I tried Quest 2 for that purpose, and I would pick it over a dual 1080p monitor setup even now. Sadly, it isn't quite as good as a single 5k ultrawide at the moment. There are other (very solvable) rought points with it currently too, like comfort (Quest 2 gets a bit tiring and sweaty to use after a couple of hours), but I heard Quest Pro has addressed that specific one, which is also awesome to see.
Given the leaps I've observed over the past few years, I feel like people are realizing the immense value of it, and the companies realize it too. So I am expecting something like this to be a fully viable solution for me within the next 5 years. And that's not even going into the portability aspect. As someone working from a hotel for the past 2 weeks, it would be amazing to have an AR/VR headset that would allow me to have the same setup everywhere, because I am not going to lug my 5k ultrawide with me wherever I need to work. Which is also why I prefer to work from home rather than the office, because my current home setup is much more optimal for my productivity that my office one.
I tried VR but found the resolution lacking.
But really I get the sentiment. A well organized high resolution single screen can be sufficient
I setup a login just for working in VR. I get MUCH more done as I'm totally distraction-free, and it's much better for my neck, as I'm looking at the screens in front of me, instead of down at my laptop. Looking down at my laptop for years has become a source of chronic pain, and working in VR removes it.
Setup is a Macbook Air M1, Quest 2, elite strap, and over-the ear headphones. I use Immersed, which is free, and put up a big screen in the middle to work on, with two narrow screens on either side for reference material.
Why not use an external monitor at eye level?
Or elevate the laptop and use an external keyboard.
What you're really looking for is the Varjo Aero: https://varjo.com/products/aero/
The Aero has 35PPD, automatic IPD adjustment and incredibly good eye tracking. It is on an entirely different level than the Quest Pro.
It's also significantly more expensive, but it is the only VR headset that I've ever been able to work comfortably in (coding) for long periods. You can use it with a laptop that has a sufficient GPU.
The Quest Pro confuses me because I don't think the perfect customer exists. Anyone who needs it and can afford it is going to be 10x happier with an Aero.
The only thing more expensive [at this part of the market] than an Aero is buying a Quest Pro first.
If you spend $200 on a VR headset, expect to get what you pay for
It's going to depend 100% on the specific device. General experience is useless. Especially if it's not from a new model.
If you really just care about 2d monitor simulation then check out Nreal.
(Disclaimer: I'm affiliated with Simula).
My understanding is that the optics are what destroys readability on the Quest 2, and in that regard the Quest Pro is in a completely different league with the pancake lenses.
Something I’ve been thinking about is tooling, though. Like if I had a browser and file storage in an environment with infinitely scalable windows/resolution I could do a lot of my work.
It’s hard to wrap my head around. Like an OS running in an OS. The answer can’t be just a horrific amount of manual labor porting a bunch of open source utilities over to some new VR based OS, right? I need to be able to connect my headset to my computer and use my existing tools in a VR environment. It’s almost like emulation. Unless Microsoft and Apple make VR compatible OS’s?
Step 1: Headset tech that doesn’t require horrific vendor lock-in (looking at you, metabook)
Step 2: Highly interactive, scalable browser (too many apps are Electron for it to be anything else)
I think with those two things I could migrate a lot of my work. Then you’d need to start fleshing it out. Creating your own little space, figuring out the tech to use your other tools in VR, creating VR focused Linux distro’s, self-hosting instances of your little corner of this new universe, giant statues of Neal Stephenson reciting passages from Snow Crash like scripture…
The bad news is that it is still a lot of hard work to nail down that kind of experience
I imagine some apps will be VR-optimized and others just flat
Is that the solution Meta will go w/? almost certainly not. But replacing a WM for a different “view” of your OS is a pretty common thing on Linux. (For some distros like Arch, replace isn’t the right word. You have to install whichever one you’d like from the beginning)
People ultimately need to be able to have choice. Their OS in their environment on their tech stack. I’m not sure how that happens, but open source operating system on an open source game engine seems like the right start.
Now we just need an open source headset…
They're lightweight, look like Sunglasses , and I've used them for productivity and watching vids for hours daily without eye strain.
In fact I've been using them for gaming on my Steam Deck too and its relieved my neck strain from not having to look down while playing.
With something like Samsung DeX on an S-series Samsung phone you can have a desktop environment, but they also just screen mirror USB-C DP Alt Mode compatible devices including some laptops and tablets, or you can use their AR Space for 3 floating (or pinned) windows.
They also work with M1 Apple laptops directly, and iPhones and HDMI devices in general via an adaptor.
Just note their AR Space feature doesn't work with many Exynos based phones, butnit does with some like the s10e and s21.
Example screenshots I took from Samsung DeX while using my Nreal Air's
https://i.postimg.cc/nrx3WLg8/Screenshot-20221025-094752-Poc...
https://i.postimg.cc/pV0WZcGk/Screenshot-20221021-153844-HBO...
I would not use it for productivity because it's a new environment/more distracting than useful. Also turning your head a lot to look at things.
I like my curved ultra wide monitor.
When the physical SimulaOne comes out I'll try it out again that one is not tethered/better quality eye display.
RE resolution being low on the Valve Index: we absolutely agree :] The Simula One offers ~3x higher pixel density than the Valve Index, and 50% higher density than the Quest Pro. This dramatically impacts the extent to which you have to turn your head to look at things.
Tried it, returned it.
> Is it comfortable for longer periods of time?
No.
> How is it on the eyes?
Strain.
Any extra screen real estate VR gives you if is vastly outweighed by the negatives. It's a sweaty glowing device right in your face that causes significantly more strain than a laptop monitor. It's cool to think about but I think you already know the answer to this. Try it yourself if you'd like.
Also you can build some small but high powered machines. I've got a mini ATX build with a 12900 ks, and a 3090. Fits in a carry-on, way faster than any laptop.
Also if you're spending that long in each location, it might be viable to just buy monitors at your location, especially if you think of it as the cost for enhanced productivity.
I'm in a similar situation so I've tried to build as capable of the travel setup as possible.
You can also throw desktop monitors in a checked bag, I'm usually only bringing one, but you can fit two to three.
It really depends on how frequently you travel, if you're going to the same locations, if you can store stuff there, and how much additional cost are you willing to pay for a better set up.
The luggage shipping services out there can be fairly reasonable, if you don't want to lug that much gear back and forth with you. Do you have a home base that you go back to, or are you jumping between locations? I used to be fully nomadic, I spent a lot of time optimizing.
At those sizes a normal FullHD or 1920x1200 panel will do you the same service - and cost much less and require much less powerful GPU to drive (battery of your laptop will thank you!)
Many seem to be discounting it entirely without qualifying their comments with the headset and tech setup used…
It doesn't really matter which headset you use or what specs they have, they are all way to heavy and uncomfortable to use for work. And I say that as someone who enjoys gaming on them quite a lot.
John Carmack mentioned the concept of VR for work specifically in his latest presentation on the pro2... something he's clearly interested in and believes will eventually happen but in his words were something along the lines of "this is going to need a lot of painful dogfooding before it's useful". Once they are down to the weight of some very chunky sunglasses - then we can start to be a bit more serious about it. It will happen, in the not too distant future, but if you force it right now I believe you will be in for a lot of discomfort and ultimately bail.
For more discussion, here's a list of HN threads on the Simula One: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=simulavr.com. The most recent one discusses a comparison between the Simula One and the Quest Pro (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318956).
Pros of the Simula One: it offers native VR computing (i.e. you put on the headset, turn it on, and get see an uncapped number of your Linux Desktop apps running in front of you). Compare this to the Questo Pro, which for VR Desktop provides WiFi streamed screens from your laptop (placing latency and bandwidth constraints on what you can do, and capping the number of screens you can use to 5).
Cons of the Simula One: it's still in preorder phase, and has a target ship date of ~Q2 2023. Our small scale makes the cost of the headset pretty high (though to be fair we're putting very premium specs into it).
I set everything up to interface with my computer using a web browser on the headset, which might not match your use case.
but what if we changed the nature of programming and could represent it as something we could walk around and change things. Get back to working with our hands.
Zero doubts.
If this becomes any kind of norm for tech work I'm throwing my computer out the window.
Lightweight AR headset? I would definitely give this a try.
To specify what I am talking about: If the device is much bigger|bulkier|heavier than thick eyeglasses, I won't use it. If the device relies on controllers (aka. something I have to hold), I won't use it (gloves would be okay as long as they don't prevent me from typing or using a pen and paper).
- Valve Index: 11.07 PPD
- Quest II: 20.58 PPD
- Quest Pro: 22.6 PPD
(In full disclaimer I'm affiliated with SimulaVR, and we're working on a headset with 35.5 PPD.)
Unless you somehow know that wouldn't bother you, I'd recommend trying it first (or sufficiently within return window) before getting too set on the idea.
Would be awkward using them in public though...
I think we are still quite a few years away from VR being a slam dunk for a virtual workstation, and it's going to require continued investments in optics, material science and display technology. There's a reason Meta is spending billions on this, it's an exceptionally difficult problem.
I'm not a VR fan at all but I tried it for a few minutes and was impressed. The headset is comfortable and light and the tracking is flawless.
It was the first time I've thought VR might have significant applications outside gaming.
I've never figured out whether this was a user issue or if this hardware is simply crap. In the end, it makes sense that OSHA guidelines suggest that your monitor should be at least half a meter away from your eyes.
Because of this experience, I'm quite pessimistic about VR as a whole, and the Quest 2 is sitting in its box on my bookshelf. I'd like to sell it or give it away, but that would require me putting it back on and de-linking my Facebook account, and I can't be bothered to do that.
I would love to try this, they have some of the highest resolutions that I've seen but a little $$$
Full size mechanical keyboard too, and lots of cables and a power strip. I almost always have extra space and end up adding clothes I don't need just to keep stuff in its place.
Weight is the real consideration you might have to manage. One time I had to remove some items and put them in carry-on to meet a weight restriction. After which I bought a very cheap luggage scale.
I also found it surprisingly frustrating that I couldn’t see the keyboard. Every time I took my hands off it I had to do this blind search for it and get my fingers back to the right starting position. Symbols I don’t know how to touch type because they are rarely used was also more frustrating than I would have thought.
What has worked for me (staying a couple of months within citiies) is to "buy" good used monitors in local pawn shops and re-pawn (sorry dont know the exact English term) them once I've finished using them. I end up paying around $50 usd or equivalent to "rent" a monitor for a couple of months.
I tried asking local internet cafes to rent me screens, but it is becoming less and less common.
The color passthrough means you can actually have coffee at your desk among a million small things it adds.
The Valve Index is better but the resolution still isn’t there
With HP’s reverb G2, it’s definitely possible since it has a higher resolution at a good price point. You can get used headsets for less than $300. It’s not great for games that require moving around since tracking is horrible, but it’s really great for work and sim games
For me it’s a no go. The software is kinda ok, the headset are also kinda ok but heavy. Overall the experience was mediocre at best. I lost velocity for the two weeks I tried using it, it was clunky and often not working and needed just too many hacks.
https://www.amazon.com/AOC-I1659FWUX-USB-Powered-Portable-19...
I would be quite hesitant to use it in public, especially in the office.
comfortable reading is around the dozen lines of text.
Surely this tells you that you would go in the opposite direction of the desired one. They are excellent for other applications - as a memex-while-moving, for example. They do not replace a station.
But virtual desktops are cool. The Quest Pro makes it nice because the pass through camera is quite good.
The headset is too clunky and heavy still, after a few hours you get a sore neck and I have trouble with lack of airflow on my skin (where it contacts my face gets sweaty and irritated after long periods)
More importantly: the resolution is too small. Using an IDE to edit text inside VR technically works, but the font size has to be so huge because the resolution inside is so poor, coding becomes an exercise in scrolling and navigation rather than an exercise in problem solving.
I’m the same as you, I like being portable, and when I was a travelling tech nomad for 2 years it meant hauling two monitors in the car everywhere.
One other option that actually worked well was getting a good quality 1080p projector and mounting it on a camera stand, I used this for a bit instead of monitors at the hotels/Airbnbs and it worked well, although that’s just a single 1080p monitor
Good idea on the road. And you could set up two projectors for two giant monitors. Although one projector and laptop should be enough for most needs.
Laser diode projectors in particular are bright and uniform enough to project onto a clean wall. There's also the option of short-throw or regular projector. Flicker-free and reliable. Turning your hotel room wall into a big screen makes sense.
I would definitely choose a portable projector over VR if I needed the equivalent of a large monitor on the road. The other thing is, you can have the screen on and do "normal life things" like read physical documents, gaze out the window, use your mobile phone, pace around the room, scratch your head, play with your hair as you think... and your screen remains stationary and separate.
I'm interested in how you were able to determine that VR was the cause vs age or just eye strain from using a regular screen in suboptimal conditions.
The key thing is that effectively, there has never really been a VR device released with this as its primary purpose until the Quest Pro. So all the complaints of clunky software, lack of comfort, visual clarity, etc are all in part side effects of people repurposing tools that were simply not meant for the job.
I've always been interested in this space and my conclusion with Quest Pro, which I've had for a week or so now, is that its borderline usable for specific tasks. However it's still not quite there for me as a primary working mode. I think about 50% of the issues are software addressable and it will be a big test of Meta to see if they managed to actually address them or not.
The main issues for me are display resolution and refresh rate I think. When looking at black text on white background, it still has a "shimmering" type effect. It's very subtle and not something obvious at first but if I try to work hours in there (like I did yesterday), it eventually affects me. This seems addressable to me but I'm not 100% sure if the approach being taken (compressing the video feed) can solve it completely - we really need something more like RDP where it draws windowing primitives natively in the headset so that there's no "refresh" at all. The resolution would be "ok" if everything else was perfect but literally any other problem makes it an issue.
However, my biggest suggestion here is that this is very personal - both to your own visual / perceptive / comfort context AND what you exactly do. Even within a specific application, "how" you do it matters. Which is all to say, you just need to try this out. I'd guess that prior to Quest Pro something like 5% of people would have found working in VR viable. Quest Pro probably brings it to 20% or so - a huge improvement but nothing like mainstream. The next gen should bring that way up to 50% or so I think - and we'll have line of sight on this, if not actual devices within 6 months - rumors are there will be an announcement from Apple in Jan/Feb (but likely not shipping until June) and then Simula is working hard on their device. If you are in the Apple ecosystem it'd be pretty crazy not to wait until their announcement (I deplore the closed ecosystem that is going to result from this but there's no chance it won't be awesome).
Finally, you'd definitely want to consider the light weight options like Nreal Air [0] if truly all you want is a giant floating monitor or two.
Wireguard is enabling us to re-think what's possible over a VPN. Here's an example of what I mean. The network stack is based on Wireguard, with https://github.com/tonarino/innernet providing the topology and identity provisioning. https://tonari.no/
Anyway I would consider Quest Pro or Pico 4 or something new rather than Quest 2.
Absolutely no
> How is it on the eyes?
Like staring at a tv from 4cm away for extend periods of time
I've used VR headsets, nothing is comfortable after even an hour of use, we're just not designed for that
I used a Quest 2 once at a conference exhibit booth demo -- so maybe 10 mins max in the headset, probably less -- and it left me dizzy, disoriented, and unable to focus my eyes correctly for at least as long after taking it off. Had to sit on the floor in the exhibit hall to clear my head.
Personally, I am waiting for eyeball implants.
I heard that Elon Musk is working on something like this, so I might give that a go when it's ready. I look forward to paying hundreds of dollars to restore my vision every time he has a tantrum and shuts off the service on a whim.
