I've only just realised that you've opensourced it all so I haven't looked at the code yet, but a couple of Qs:
- is there anything that the old wave your fingers at the screen pose detect model did better the new screenpalm method? I always wondered if you were detecting the angle of motion (pronation?) for each finger to tilt its keywell, and I guess it's maybe harder to do that with the new method.
- have you ever thought about using the measurements for one hand to spot measurement outliers in the other? Would it ever make sense to generate a symmetrical keyboard from the combined measurements of both hands?
- have you thought about collaborating with other keyboard designers to add their designs to the app and give them a cut? For example the Cygnus[0] is a stunning keyboard; I'm not sure if it is parametrically generated, but I do remember thinking that I'd absolutely pay money to get one tailored to my hand geometry, and then wondering whether you could ever pull off building a designer marketplace/ecosystem out of the whole thing, maybe with a little sdk. It's one thing that the aliexpress copycat sellers can't copy.
Also somehow only just realised that you have a blog. I might go read it.
1) I still have the waving your fingers stage (it's after the screenpalm), but it now walks you through different finger motions so that the results are more consistent than waving your fingers all around. It's detecting then angle of motion, but I'm so far only using this for building the 3D hand model. The old method had better UX and fewer bugs, but the new one will more accurately measure the size of your hand.
2) I've never thought of that! I sometimes generate symmetrical keyboards for myself, simply because it’s easier to edit when both sides are synced. But I ultimately think it’s better to fit each hand independently.
3) The cygnus keyboard is super cool. I’ve made one and modified the STEP file to change the sockets. The fusion 360 files for it are published, so it likely has some parametrization but not anywhere close enough to achieve the flexibility of the Cosmos model.
There’s a tradeoff between customizability and how perfect the keyboard looks and feels. I’ve opted to go all-in on customizability, because to my knowledge no other keyboard design does this. I make as few assumptions about your keyboard as I can, so that Cosmos works with a single key, small mouse-like modules with a trackpad/ball and a few keys, or a proper keyboard shape. The downside is that what I’m doing is akin to teaching a robot to paint, whereas I’d compare designs like the Cygnus that place more constraints on the keyboard shape to a human painting. Until AI becomes sufficiently skilled at 3D design, the human painting will be more creative and skilled than the robot, and I can't bridge both types of design.
2. On Ergodox EZ, and non-English layout, I need more keys. Unfortunately, the right side corner of ISO keyboard has to be distributed among other places on Ergodox EZ. (I'd love to have home/pgup/pgdn/end column somewhere, like on laptops. Maybe the rightmost end of kbd is not the best place for it, IDK.)
3. Adding extra row/column causes lower row collide with the thumb cluster. I guess, it's reasonable, but I don't know what's the workaround. (remove the lower row completely?) https://imgur.com/a/vdfOLq1
Good idea about finger scanning.
I tried the scan the hand and simulate features. Will the editor make different halves of the keyboard?
Also, thumb bends differently than in the simulator. :)
1. Put them on the rightmost column, but it's unclear where the `]` has to go -- lower, or upper.
2. Use the rightmost wide column of keys for some special keys (like home/pgup/pgdn/end), but have to redistribute these 3 keys elsewhere.
I briefly thought about like a form fitting style, where you go and have your hand scanned in resting position on a dummy mouse, and then the mouse body is formed for your hand. This could also allow for button customizations as well.
Also, would be great to have an option of adding a USB hub on the inner edge for plugging in a USB key or adding a USB plug on the outside for a mouse.
I've got half a keeb printed that I generated here, I really need to restart that project at some point...
In my opinion, the best keyboards are the ones that are very easy to clean :) Ideally, switches should be chosen based on your hands since everyone has different preferences. I'm currently using Keychron K5 SE ultra-slim with Low Profile Optical hot-swappable "Banana" switches, and it's the most comfortable keyboard I've ever had — and it's not even that expensive (for a mechanical keyboard). Before that, I had SteelSeries' top model, and it broke after about a year.
Building custom keyboards is next-level, and I think I'll pass on that. What matters most is that it's comfortable to type on and easy to clean. A piece of advice for beginners: don't buy keyboards from Logitech or Apple. They're overrated and not worth their price.
I've had the same keyboard for like a decade, but I go through mice every 3-6 months. I've tried logitech / corsair / no-name / razor. 90% of the time I replace a mouse because of phantom double clicks or the mouse3 button just ceasing to work.
More rarely, the mouse will reconnect cycle over and over, or the scroll wheel will break.
I don't THINK I abuse them, but my body count indicates maybe I'm too hard on them and don't know it.
Maybe we need hardware that'll give us data on how mean we are to them so we can gain perspective. :p
If you're ready for 1h of info on some switch and how they're misused in mice enjoy this in-depth video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5BhECVlKJA
I think the gaming mouse market is ripe for a ruggerized mouse with only optional software which does not require some account creation if you don't want to. If you could make it cheap enough you could call it the 2CV.
/end anecdata
I made a fairly extensive build log from start to finish including how I got the integrated trackball to work together with QMK here:
https://www.jonashietala.se/blog/2024/11/26/building_my_ulti...
I also made some Dactyl Manuforms, but their key wells are not as nice as the Advantage, let alone the Glove80. They also have pretty bad thumb clusters (though with Cosmos it's configurable), not a good palm rest, etc. The only custom board I would be interested in (if the Glove didn't happen) would be:
https://github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1
Since it also seems to have good palm rests, etc.
If the Kinesis is working for you, I would not switch. It's an extremely high quality board and most of these Dactyl's are all attempts to replicate the Kinesis at a more accessible price point and/or with higher amounts of customizability. The tradeoff is that they tend to be extremely fragile, have really poor build quality, and have zero to none customer support attached.
However, the KA doesn't work for everybody. I find it too big and the switches too heavy. So I opted for a custom approach, which sadly only survived about 4 months.
My reasons to switch were:
- better thumb cluster (more buttons reachable)
- split keyboard (better ergo placement)
- slightly optimized key placement (nice to have)
- QMK firmware (good for a laugh, fun to hack, can program hyper/super keys into firmware)
There’s a very active and helpful community on discord too.
I can test this, in fact - I'm already building a custom keyboard, although it's a) not with this generator, and b) intentionally closely matching another keyboard I own. I could do another with the horizontal spacings from this site while keeping everything else the same, and see if it's preferable.
My daily driver is a planck (flat rectangle, no num row) which I designed to lighten the load on my pinkies. I moved the left alpha keys further left and the right alpha keys futher right, so I have two columns in the center which I use for Ctrl,Alt,<,>,[,],(, and ). These get different keycaps so I can navigate it by texture. I love it, using other keyboards my pinkies always start to hurt after a while, but with this thing I can really crank.
I'd like to depart from the flat rectangle form factor, while keeping all of the things I love about my planck, and using advanced mode here I was able to get pretty darn close. What's missing is the bottom left and right corner keys, which I consider "palm-press" keys. If I disable the num row and enable the inner keys, the outermost columns only have three keys. I'd appreciate a checkbox that gave them four, with the fourth awkwardly low for pinky use but accessible for a "palm" press (not sure if the meaty part under the knuckle counts as the palm but that's what I mean anyway).
With the right curvature there's probably also opportunity to do the same thing under the index knuckle.
Speaking of palm presses, someone shared a “palmtyl” design with several keys under the palm in the discord (here’s a video: https://youtu.be/D8ev08mnSmg). It’s an interesting way of squeezing in more keys without requiring finger travel.
Maybe I would lose some personalization, but I would keep my sanity.
By default F12 is on the lower layer "V" key.
https://docs.moergo.com/glove80-user-guide/typing-with-glove...
The customization/website wasn't as fancy - I just sent in photos of my hand – but that's ok.
I really love the quality, and the owner is super nice, responsive, and has great service.
I primarily use a Durgod Hades 68, I have to have the dedicated arrow keys on the bottom right. I have a bunch of others similar design. My problem was instead of buying as switch tester I started buying random keyboards with different switches so I now have too many. I also used to use the Apple magic keyboards those small ones with a cylinder battery holder.
