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0 pointsKingMachiavelli1mo ago0 comments

I don't think this is where peak battery tech ends up. At current capacities, batteries are becoming genuinely dangerous, and faster charging only amplifies the risk. Charging high-capacity cells outside a temperature-controlled charger is risky, and even reputable chargers shouldn't be left unattended — many workplaces ban it outright (it only takes one fire to make that policy). Phone batteries are the worst of it: highest power density, fastest charging, odd geometry, and tight space constraints. Manufacturers shrink the phone by offloading temperature monitoring and heat dissipation onto the phone's own electronics and housing — so replaceable, externally rechargeable batteries are tricky to design. IMO, swappable batteries were a feature because batteries used to suck. In less volume-constrained devices like cameras, swappable batteries still work — but you're trading single-charge runtime for that convenience.

This last point is actually a real killer, an easily swappable battery in a phone probably sacrifices >10% "maximum" capacity in lost space. e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

0 comments

theshrike791mo ago

It's the exact same as with EVs.

We COULD have an EV with a 200kWh battery that can go 1000km++ on a charge in -30C weather. But nobody really needs that beyond a few outliers.

What we NEED is ubiquitous and easy charging.

Going for a burger, it'll take 20 minutes for you to order, eat and walk out. On a 300kW charger in the parking lot you can in theory get up to 100kWh charged. Or less with a slower one. Even plugging in to a 50kW charger for 20 minutes is enough.

Same with shopping etc, giving "everyone" a 2kW charger in a parking lot is table stakes in 2026.

And with phones: just have the possilibity of charging everywhere. I have 13€ Ikea Qi2 ("Magsafe") compatible chargers[0] everywhere in the house. Anyone can just slap their phone on one and it'll charge a bit.

There's no reason why we can't have more of those in public - we did try when wireless charging first appeared, but it was a whole chicken and egg thing. Nobody had phones that supported it and finding the exact 1x1cm spot where the phone charges was a pain. Qi2 with the alignment magnets takes that problem away completely.

[0] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaestmaerke-wireless-charging-s...

cogman101mo ago

Yeah, ubiquitous slow charging stations more than anything else is really what's needed to make EVs practical for everyone.

They can be ubiquitous for anyone that owns a home which takes a large load off the need for public infrastructure. Adding more L2 chargers and even L1 chargers could easily cover anyone in apartments. And even if there's not quite enough, L3 chargers can quickly cover any gaps if you start running low and couldn't get a spot with a charger.

I think there is a too much focus on L3 chargers in general. For the cost of a single L3 charging station you can put in multiples of L1 and L2 chargers.

brianwawok1mo ago

But why put charges at burger shacks? For most people most of the time charge while you sleep. On trips charge along the highway. Every single store doesn’t need chargers, it’s a waste.

throw0101d1mo ago

> For most people most of the time charge while you sleep.

Unless you're a 'garage orphan': no garage, driveway or parking pad, and have to park on the street.

* https://electricautonomy.ca/news/2019-06-24/solving-the-elec...

* https://www.theenergymix.com/garage-orphans-scramble-for-cha...

Apartments (either rental, or condo ownership) may have underground parking with a few slots for charging.

1 more reply

numpad01mo ago

There are reasons for burger shacks to NOT have chargers, for EVs and phones alike: restaurants make money by maximizing customer throughput. Excuses for customers to extend stays is damaging to them.

There are other types of businesses, such as high end restaurants and furniture stores, that benefit from customers extending times in the store. Burger shops aren't one of those.

1 more reply

LordDragonfang1mo ago

"Most people" with EVs charge while they sleep, because right now it doesn't make as much sense to buy an EV if you're in the actual majority that does not have access to a garage you can install a charger in. That fact is one of the major things slowing EV adoption.

2 more replies

theshrike791mo ago

You do know that people travel? I don’t need to charge when I’m in my home town, I can do that at home.

But when I’m travelling I’d rather charge a bit every time I stop rather than have one loong stop just to charge.

And I’m not talking about Joe’s Shack that has like 1.8 parking spots. More like McD or BK.

8note1mo ago

> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?

numpad01mo ago

That brings back memories! Yes, many devices before iPhone had normalized internal batteries indeed had aftermarket extended batteries. They would come with matching bulged back covers to fit the significantly oversized battery.

golem141mo ago

That's true even today for HAM radio handhelds. There is a cottage industry of ever larger snap on batteries for Baofengs and others. Very handy.

Random thought: Maybe Apple should use radioisotope batteries to never have to change them, ever. I jest.

1 more reply

hdgvhicv1mo ago

My early iPhones had external battery cases, which even when attached (when travelling a long distance) were smaller than modern iPhones in the important dimensions.

tracker11mo ago

And it was pretty great... No to mention the shell swaps, etc...

Oxodao1mo ago

Thinkpad T480, with dual battery was a really great idea

cogman101mo ago

The main thing that makes all this hard to do is the form factor.

Give these phone batteries a standard geometry and interface and pretty much all these problems immediately go away. 3 prongs on the battery (ground, positive, data). A standard protocol so the battery can communicate things like SOC or acceptable charge rate with the charger. And viola, you are off to the races.

Yes, this will mean manufacturers will have a hard limit on how thin they can make their phones and a constraint on what designs they can employ.

lwhi1mo ago

Ultimately the main benefit obtained from not allowing battery replacement, is an increase in sales of newer models.

While your reasoning has _some_ merit, it reads as an apologia for the status quo .. rather than an example of why we should prevent easy battery replacement.

audunw1mo ago

The danger of batteries doesn’t have much to do with their capacity. Many solid state batteries are far safer than liquid electrolyte ones, while also having higher energy density.

dzhiurgis1mo ago

Slop

thelastgallon1mo ago

We don't need fast charging. Phones will be left on wireless charging surfaces, which will eventually be ubiquitous. Everyone hates usb-c plug in. Just leave it on a surface, pick it whenever you want.

We don't need to fast charge anything, phones or EVs. Slow charging preserves battery life and smart charging will charge whenever it is cheapest.

Oxodao1mo ago

I've never seen anyone hate usb-c, what world do you live in? And on phones fast-charging's cost on the battery life expectancy is negligible[0]

Also, wireless charging is finicky and comes at a cost: way less efficient energy transfer.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLS5Cg_yNdM

sham11mo ago

Well hatered for USB-C for charging connectors seems to be strong in this thread alongside the dislike for being able to have changeable batteries.

Hell, this thread even has a person whose argument against USB-C is that mandating it will mean that the EU will get conquered by Russia.

fingerlocks1mo ago

I hate USB-C. Hi. I do a lot of woodworking and the port easily clogs with sawdust and lint. It was very easy to clean it each day when I had a lightning connector, a common toothpick would suffice.

Now I have to purchase specialized non-marring micro tool scrapers to clean the port without damaging it. The scrapers break after a few cleanings, so this is an ongoing monthly recurring cost. Yeah I can charge wirelessly, but I still don’t want sawdust in my phone hole after a day of ripping wood.

7 more replies

bmicraft1mo ago

Charging a 5Ah phone empty to full every day of the year adds up to all of about 7kWh. Nobody cares if you shave off a couple cents per year if the experience is worse.

thelastgallon1mo ago

But slow charging will preserve the battery life a lot longer, which is more important.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

theshrike791mo ago

It's the exact same as with EVs.

We COULD have an EV with a 200kWh battery that can go 1000km++ on a charge in -30C weather. But nobody really needs that beyond a few outliers.

What we NEED is ubiquitous and easy charging.

Same with shopping etc, giving "everyone" a 2kW charger in a parking lot is table stakes in 2026.

[0] https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaestmaerke-wireless-charging-s...

cogman101mo ago

Yeah, ubiquitous slow charging stations more than anything else is really what's needed to make EVs practical for everyone.

I think there is a too much focus on L3 chargers in general. For the cost of a single L3 charging station you can put in multiples of L1 and L2 chargers.

brianwawok1mo ago

But why put charges at burger shacks? For most people most of the time charge while you sleep. On trips charge along the highway. Every single store doesn’t need chargers, it’s a waste.

throw0101d1mo ago

> For most people most of the time charge while you sleep.

Unless you're a 'garage orphan': no garage, driveway or parking pad, and have to park on the street.

* https://electricautonomy.ca/news/2019-06-24/solving-the-elec...

* https://www.theenergymix.com/garage-orphans-scramble-for-cha...

Apartments (either rental, or condo ownership) may have underground parking with a few slots for charging.

1 more reply

numpad01mo ago

There are other types of businesses, such as high end restaurants and furniture stores, that benefit from customers extending times in the store. Burger shops aren't one of those.

1 more reply

LordDragonfang1mo ago

2 more replies

theshrike791mo ago

You do know that people travel? I don’t need to charge when I’m in my home town, I can do that at home.

But when I’m travelling I’d rather charge a bit every time I stop rather than have one loong stop just to charge.

And I’m not talking about Joe’s Shack that has like 1.8 parking spots. More like McD or BK.

8note1mo ago

> e.g a phone with a glued battery can have 5000mAh but the same phone with a more durable battery connector can only be 4500mAh.

alternatively, i can trade more bulk for more battery. if its got a connector, why cant i put a bigger batter in the slot that sticks out?

numpad01mo ago

golem141mo ago

That's true even today for HAM radio handhelds. There is a cottage industry of ever larger snap on batteries for Baofengs and others. Very handy.

Random thought: Maybe Apple should use radioisotope batteries to never have to change them, ever. I jest.

1 more reply

hdgvhicv1mo ago

My early iPhones had external battery cases, which even when attached (when travelling a long distance) were smaller than modern iPhones in the important dimensions.

tracker11mo ago

And it was pretty great... No to mention the shell swaps, etc...

Oxodao1mo ago

Thinkpad T480, with dual battery was a really great idea

cogman101mo ago

The main thing that makes all this hard to do is the form factor.

Yes, this will mean manufacturers will have a hard limit on how thin they can make their phones and a constraint on what designs they can employ.

lwhi1mo ago

Ultimately the main benefit obtained from not allowing battery replacement, is an increase in sales of newer models.

While your reasoning has _some_ merit, it reads as an apologia for the status quo .. rather than an example of why we should prevent easy battery replacement.

audunw1mo ago

The danger of batteries doesn’t have much to do with their capacity. Many solid state batteries are far safer than liquid electrolyte ones, while also having higher energy density.

dzhiurgis1mo ago

Slop

thelastgallon1mo ago

We don't need to fast charge anything, phones or EVs. Slow charging preserves battery life and smart charging will charge whenever it is cheapest.

Oxodao1mo ago

I've never seen anyone hate usb-c, what world do you live in? And on phones fast-charging's cost on the battery life expectancy is negligible[0]

Also, wireless charging is finicky and comes at a cost: way less efficient energy transfer.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLS5Cg_yNdM

sham11mo ago

Well hatered for USB-C for charging connectors seems to be strong in this thread alongside the dislike for being able to have changeable batteries.

Hell, this thread even has a person whose argument against USB-C is that mandating it will mean that the EU will get conquered by Russia.

fingerlocks1mo ago

I hate USB-C. Hi. I do a lot of woodworking and the port easily clogs with sawdust and lint. It was very easy to clean it each day when I had a lightning connector, a common toothpick would suffice.

7 more replies

bmicraft1mo ago

Charging a 5Ah phone empty to full every day of the year adds up to all of about 7kWh. Nobody cares if you shave off a couple cents per year if the experience is worse.

thelastgallon1mo ago

But slow charging will preserve the battery life a lot longer, which is more important.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse