Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters (opens in new tab)

It seems to have gotten a lot worse lately, and the recruiters all seem to copy each other now:

Recruiter: You seem to be a perfect candidate for job A.

Really? That's nice. I'll read on to see the offer...

Recruiter: The position is a senior role using X, Y, Z

Wait a minute, I don't use X, I've only seen Y once and haven't worked in Z for years. What makes this person think I'm right for this position?

Recruiter: Can you send me your resume.

Oh, I see. CV scraping. They collect them for their portfolio I guess, or sell them on or something. It really isn't worth replying if they couldn't even be bothered to read the Linkedin profile they sent a message to, from which it would have been clear that I am in no way a perfect or appropriate candidate for said position.

I don't mind either, but what's annoying is how frustratingly vague they are when they are contacting me first. A typical example:

Recruiter: "I have a great senior engineering position and you're a perfect match!"

Me: "Great. Can you send me a job description and tell me more about what field they're in? I'm an embedded guy and I'm going to want to know if this is (for example) medical, automotive, HMI, or something else."

And this is where things completely go to hell. The typical response is a job description that reads as "must know how to write software" and I've even gotten repsonses like "the client is starting in a new sector and is so stealth they can't talk about it." Seriously?

The other annoying trend now is the marketing and sales types that are scraping LinkedIn for buzzwords and cold calling you based on that. Don't believe me? Put the word "IoT" somewhere in your top description block and watch your inbox and voicemail over the next two weeks.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, to me it's a form of humblebragging. It's definitely a nice thing to be in high demand and 'complaining' about recruiters knocking down the door seems so arrogant and unaware.

The low quality spam I can do without, but it's never anything to whine about, filter and move on if it's a problem.

I like recruiters but I don't like the BS games. I think OPs creation is designed to cut through the BS and avoid wasting time. It really sucks to hear about a cool opportunity and set up a call to find out the pay is too low, the opportunity is at an undesirable company, or it simply isn't exactly what you were looking for. And all that happens because they try to withhold information until they get you on the phone and apply their sales tactics. OPs creation is an attempt to figure most of this out and weed out the recruiters that are just spamming and trying to get a warm body in a seat.

I'm not an engineer/developer but this happens in my area as well.

Recruiter spam has no correlation with expertise but more with your online profiles. Take linked in for example, when I had my real experience there (technologies used, etc) I got spammed a lot, but since changing all my profile to just contain the basic info (worked at X in year Y) just so I can connect with past workers, I get maybe 1-2 linked in spam emails a month. I assume if you have (or had since some recruiters scrape and store) filled your details in a job site (monster, cwjobs, etc) before, that rate will be a lot higher than if you just have a tech blog. Again, no relation with expertise, just online profile

Recruiters come in waves, I may have zero recruiters for two months then have 4-5 in a week. So sometimes its flattering after the 3rd or 4th of things that barely fit, its just "What do you want?"

The only recruiters I ever reply to are ones that state the company that they are representing. They tend to be local and actually trying.

99% is useless spam. I usually reply back with a copy/paste filling in blanks with their name to please give me more specific info about the position and salary range. Even that is too much to ask and they don't usually reply with the info.

I mean.. that's what they are doing, might as well do the same.

I don't mind emails from recruiters. I normally have enough info to know there is no reason to talk to them, and just delete the email without replying, and once in a while I'll respond if it does have promise. But nothing has yet pulled me away from my current gig.

The ones that I don't understand is the people who ask to connect on LinkedIn, with no explanation of who they are or why they want to talk to me. For those, I send a generic email telling them that if they want to say something to me, feel free to send an email. None ever have actually done so.

Title/position affects it significantly. When my title went from software engineer and manager to independent consultant (and later, CEO) it went way down because they usually don't want to deal with corp to corp consultants/firms.

Of course, I do occasionally get people pitching me for software development and staffing services, even though my profile clearly shows I do both. You can't avoid the robots and grossly incompetent.

Suppose it depends on the market/job role.

I'm a Designer with some developer skills and I get spammed constantly for having things like "Javascript" et al on my profile.

My true developer friends seem to get it even worse. Around here, Java is the big need, so if you've got it on your profile, expect constant recruiter spam.

I get a dozen emails a day from recruiters, sometimes more. I don't have time for the phone calls, I barely have time for the emails. If I get a particularly egregious one, like, say, for a PHP position or DBA, I go off on them because it's ridiculous.

I've been working for 15 years and get a lot of emails. OK, it's useful when I need a job, but about 1 in 30 is relevant. You know it's all keyword based, I haven't done Java for 8 years yet I get it all the bloody time!

Yeah, I don't get the hate for recruiters and find the attention flattering. A lot of my friends who are not in our industry find in foreign that I get so many emails and LinkedIn messages from headhunters on a weekly basis.

Further, when I respond to recruiters I tell them that I'm making a ton more then I am and in doing so, I get interviews where the offers are paying tons more then my current salary.

Why not use them to get a better deal? The majority of the notices you get go nowhere, while some do and you then get a new gig that pays you almost double from what you were making.

They likely moved on, but then again dealerships are always looking for sales people. He has the lying requirement down.

There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. If you seriously want to know what they're willing to pay, you'll have to go through the whole hiring process.

Honest question - is this working pretty well? I might give it a try.

I've had this happen multiple times. I find it very disrespectful to call me unsolicited at my job about another job.

Hasn't happened to me, but it's happened several times to a guy I work with. They always claim that they need help with some software issue, I guess to make it sound more plausible, though I have no idea why anyone outside the company would call us for software help.

BTDT too, and our office admin works directly for my boss. And she has Caller ID. It pisses me off to no end.

I had the same experience. Luckily for me the secretary at my work politely declined to pass on the call.

I used it for a while already. Hard to see the conversion rate since HN people or now spamming it with bogus content.

My gutfeeling tells me that is was around 50-60%

Don't think any recruiter is going to give me that info :-)

Usually they claim that everything is so secret etc.

I'd imagine it's done in the same automated manner the recruiters usually use when contacting a possible lead.

It does not seem rude to me to reply to someone with a brief salutation and a request to complete some forms when that is what they are requesting you do as well.

That is exactly what I do.

At the moment it is mostly HN visitors entering bogus info.

60% of them replies but most of them with the same info as in the email. I bin those.

Some of them get it an like it, I tend to like them a little more.

With javascript it is one of the smoothest experiences I've seen filling out a form. Very, very nice.

But probably not worth it, if it doesn't degrade nicely.

That's what Hired is trying to be, isn't it?

Feel free, to create one yourself on typeform.com

> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure.

If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

Re asking recruiters about salary - it's about not wasting everyone's time. If someone's happy with their current job and would need a substantial pay increase to consider leaving it, then it is a waste of both their time and the recruiters time if the salary requirements can't be met. I would change that field's description to include "approximate", though.

The most negative reaction I've ever gotten to something like "I'm happy with my job, and it would take a salary somewhere in the ballpark of $X to tempt me away, is that feasible?" was "If you're making anywhere near $X now I'm impressed.". The number I give for $X varies a little depending on their pitch - for example it goes up by at least $100k if they mention that they're looking for someone manage compliance for PCI-DSS, HIPPA, SOX or similar.

"Opportunity"! Opportunity to work for less while the recruiter sits there earning a fat fee for merely passing on my resume? No thanks.

I love how everyone thinks their job is some amazing opportunity but won't back it up with something useful you can put towards maybe buying a place to live, like money.

> Most recruiters will not share this information until you have gone through the process more. What is to stop you from ignoring them and contacting companies directly once they give this?

Common courtesy. Not giving company name is a sign that the deal with the recruiter will likely not be a "win-win" arrangement.

> This is a poor choice and will drive away recruiters.

I think that's sort of a point of that form. There's way too much recruiter spam in tech, so it's good for you to get rid of the more exploiting ones.

> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure.

I don't think this really applies to most programming jobs; the current trend in tech is to switch a job every couple of years.

5. is interesting, I honestly never considered your reasoning, but it makes sense. It also backfires though, I wouldn't talk to recruiter that wouldn't tells me the name of the company. There are companies that I wouldn't want to work for. They are usually the same companies that outsource recruitment, so it works out okay.

> Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure

I consider a decent salary part of a good career. If it was just about doing stuff I care about I wouldn't work at all, I could do all those things without a job. Giving at least a salary range would be expected.

9. I disagree you're wasting everyone's time if the numbers are way too far apart. I.E they would like to pay 80k+ Options when you're currently @ 130k + Vested Options.

I wouldn't even waste the harddrive space for a database entry unless I knew the exact location where I would be working and the name of the company that I would be working at. Most companies are bullshit and I have a very low tolerance for that or commuting (since length of commute is inversely correlated with happiness).

No, I am not going to go outside and apply directly - I wouldn't get a higher salary that way.

I did not intend for it to be taking so seriously. It is more a mirror for the recruitment business and the fact that they on occasions spam people big time.

It's an insult to ask what the pay is?

Do you think the recruiter asks the employer? If so, there are two possible reasons: because it's pertinent information for candidates, or because the recruiter gets paid based on that info. If the former, no insult. If the latter, the recruiter is in familiar territory if so "insulted" by the candidate.

"Yearly salary before taxes - This is a required field. If I were a recruiter I would ignore you at this point. "

And nothing of value would have been lost. Any recruiter that isn't willing to disclose this is looking to lowball you.