The irony.
> https://beehaw.org/post/567170
> these two instances’ open registration policy, which is extremely problematic for us given how federation works and how trivial it makes trolling, harassment, and other undesirable behavior;
> unfortunate reality we’ve also found is we just don’t have the tools or the time here to parse out all the good from all the bad. all we have is a nuke and some pretty rudimentary mod powers that don’t scale well. we have a list of improvements we’d like to see both on the moderation side of Lemmy and federation if at all possible–but we’re unanimous in the belief that we can’t wait on what we want to be developed here.
At least before Elon bought Twitter I know the most active (depending on how you count metrics) site was poa.st, and this was on a mastodon.social blacklist, which was one of the other major sites, and every site had their own list. I know people would sometimes have 4 or 5 accounts so that they could talk to everyone they wanted or as insurance in case the current admin got bored and closed the site.
I of course support the idea of a federated reddit, but there are a lot of problems that exist in the community
This is why the Fediverse cannot work. More precisely, it can work, but only in the same way as the thing it tries to replace.
It's always the same story: The largest communities impose their rules on everyone else, under threat of exclusion from those communities. This creates power structures that are almost indistinguishable from the ones found on commercial networks. In one case, it's business interests that drive culture, in the other, it's the egos and personal ideologies of the most powerful community members.
I honestly don't know which one is worse.
I imagine some will, but hopefully that won't be the norm. Beehaw isn't doing it.
There's probably been similar stuff on twitter though - blacklists where you get added for following someone else on the blacklist
There are other programming communities on other servers that will likely become the actual replacement for r/programming.
EDIT: The "What is Beehaw?" post in their sidebar[0] is a really enlightening introduction to the community, and also quite interesting for developing an understanding of the fediverse as a whole. This isn't going to be a drop-in replacement for Reddit because the admins will all have very different visions of the kinds of communities they want to create. I didn't end up deciding to join Beehaw, but reading their post made me very hopeful for the future of the fediverse as a whole.
We're back to dodging Eris, are we?
Moderation in the fediverse (inc. Mastodon & Lemmy) means defederating from "problematic" instances, where problematic is defined in the rules of the server doing the federating server (which appears to be documented at https://beehaw.org/instances)
This means moderation happens at a community & instance level rather than global moderation.
Please correct me if I'm missing something - I'm quite new to Mastodon & the fediverse like I'm sure many are!
It's actually problematic when instances get too large to fail (like the two biggest mastodon ones), because when their mods cannot cope anymore, you can't realistically ban the whole insurance - too many users would be affected.
But that's still better than a single global namespace where you have to deal with single accounts every time.
For instance, the free-speech instances weren't going to be interested in dealing with the typical Twitter refugee anyway, and both would be content in their own corner.
But with federated forums this changes, as now you're expecting users from other instances to form a community with your users, so you're heavily incentivised to only work with instances who place the same emphasis on the rules, and unless each "clique" is fine with duplicating all the common forum topics for their own users, the result is that a very small group of people gets to take everyone's content hostage to impose their own will on the community.
So we're back to the same Reddit issue of a few people controlling the majority of the content.
Former Reddit mods are going to love this feature.
Now when they are power-tripping or they don't agree with another instances users views on a topic, instead of just banning the users, they can ban entire instances/communities from participating in one fell swoop.
However, if there's demand open source contributors will sort out the tooling soon enough, while the closed-source official Reddit app is unlikely to improve anything soon.
How do you measure success? Number of users? Number of posts and comments?
It is possible to have a small community with few people and less activity, that maintains a higher quality of content than a bigger community with more people.
The main danger of being small might be the threat of becoming an echo chamber because you are not exposed to as much variety in ideas. But even big communities sometimes do a “pretty good job at” (i.e. succumb to) becoming an echo chamber.
My biggest issue about this is that I'm too lazy to learn how it works. I don't understand what "federation" and "defederating" mean in this context. For Reddit I have terms like:
subreddit - a board, like in a forum
mod - a mod, just like in a forum again
karma - useless internet point
and that's about all I need to know. I just don't have the incentive to learn what federation, defederating, instances, etc are, but they seem to somehow can affect what content I can see or whether I'll get banned. This demotivates me even further.
Of course if it becomes a mainstream platform or all my friends are using it then I'll learn these concepts. But not before that.
I highly recommend reading Beehaw's history that they link from their sidebar. It helped me better understand the value proposition of the fediverse, and goes a long way towards explaining their perspective on the necessity of defederating the large instances:
One doesn’t come across such intense blindness of self like that very often. Steer clear.
I'm reading another instance of "eternal september" in this post.
This is a huge advantage of a large number of smaller servers, defederation as a policy decision by your instance administrator can be solved by moving to a new one without nearly as much trouble if you disagree with it.
The huge disadvantage (or advantage as it evolves) is that technology@lemmy.bobstown and technology@kbin.char (made up instances) have different membership and moderation.
It will be interesting to see how that goes, I expect niche topics to end up accumulating on one or two servers to gain enough membership while huge topics end up with more serious siloing by instance.
Yeah, forgot to mention that not exactly unimportant part, I’m on neither myself and can use them just fine -.- edited it in.
Regarding duplicate communities, I think one of the most important features needed will be something like multi-subs as reddit had it. Right now, I can’t just read all my technology subs without opening them one by one. This will only get worse if more servers defederate from each other.
The only advantage(?) Reddit had over these was a user could have feed from all these communities which is still possible with RSS
Edit: I want to know where r/selfhosted ended up, anyone knows?
The poor showing of migrated communities - both low volume of migrations, and poor performance of the servers running them, isn’t helping the cause.
Like, I look at that list and the broken-overloaded lemmys running them and I can’t help but think this is why Reddit is successful and will continue to be successful. Because very, very few will put up with such a poor experience the alternatives offer.
Of course, if there’s some serious effort put in asap into the usability, stability and overall experience of the decentralised communities approach, then Reddit may falter. I’m not optimistic.
Still, users now expect an active community and a fast and reliable website right now, not in 10 years.
Lemmy/Kbin/whatever is not going to _replace_ Reddit today, and I don't think they ever meant to replace it all at once... but maybe they can keep growing and eventually get there.
Please tell me this is a joke.
Good for them, but this is supposed to be the Reddit replacement? A forum that was, until recently, just running on some guy’s computer? I know there are other instances but are there any serious ones?
Can't wait for phpBB and YaBB style re-replacements of Reddit.
Please let us know when we can access our contributions again.
They might not all be part of the same organisation, but there will be plenty of people in the ecosystem operating at a loss. If they're happy with that arrangement, great! But I want to use Reddit.
So many weebs with minor proficiency attacking and berating posters.
Why does this not surprise me? The Japan-expat-oriented subs on reddit are frequently terrible, especially /r/japanlife, which has the worst mods I've ever seen in a sub.
This site can’t provide a secure connection
redditmigration.com uses an unsupported protocol.
ERR_SSL_VERSION_OR_CIPHER_MISMATCH
curl -v https://redditmigration.com/ --resolve redditmigration.com:443:44.227.76.166
* Added redditmigration.com:443:44.227.76.166 to DNS cache
* Hostname redditmigration.com was found in DNS cache
* Trying 44.227.76.166...
* TCP_NODELAY set
* Connected to redditmigration.com (44.227.76.166) port 443 (#0)
* ALPN, offering h2
* ALPN, offering http/1.1
* Cipher selection: ALL:!EXPORT:!EXPORT40:!EXPORT56:!aNULL:!LOW:!RC4:@STRENGTH
* successfully set certificate verify locations:
* CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt
CApath: /etc/ssl/certs
* TLSv1.2 (OUT), TLS header, Certificate Status (22):
* TLSv1.2 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1):
* TLSv1.2 (IN), TLS header, Unknown (21):
* TLSv1.2 (IN), TLS alert, Server hello (2):
* error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failure
* Curl_http_done: called premature == 1
* stopped the pause stream!
* Closing connection 0
curl: (35) error:14077410:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:sslv3 alert handshake failureThe defederation wars have already begun [0][1]
This is going to greatly upset fans of both Star Wars and Star Trek, heh!
I'm not interested in Lemmy or Mastodon or any of this stuff.
Large subreddits simply cannot work without moderation. When that happens, Reddit is forced to close them.
So either Reddit replaces all mods with AI in the short term, or brings back the mods, or just ceases to exist.
=.=.=.=
Technology and Programming
c/technology – General technology news and links
c/rust – Links and discussions relevant for users of the Rust programming language
c/coolgithubprojects – Links to projects on GitHub, Gitlab, sr.ht, Codeberg, or other git hosts. If you found a project on any git hosting site, that seems cool or otherwise useful then it belongs here, as long as it is open source
c/programming – General links and discussions about the art and craft of programming
c/space – Exploration of space
c/machine_learning – AI & ML
c/bitcoin – For news and discussions about Bitcoin technology. Price discussions are off–topic. No posting about ICO sales, NFT sales or other kinds of token or coin sales.
c/ethereum – For news and discussions about Ethereum technology. Price discussions are off–topic. No posting about ICO sales, NFT sales or other kinds of token or coin sales.
c/linux – News and discussions relating to the Linux kernel as well as about Linux distributions like Ubuntu, Arch Linux, Debian, Gentoo, etc
c/freebsd – News and discussions relating to the FreeBSD Operating System
c/retro_computing – Sinclair ZX Spectrum, BBC Micro, Commodore 64, Amiga 1000, etc, etc
c/demoscene – All about the demoscene, an international computer art subculture focused on producing demos: self-contained, sometimes extremely small, computer programs that produce audiovisual presentations. The purpose of a demo is to show off programming, visual art, and musical skills.
-.-.-.-
Creativity and Entertainment
c/music – Talk about bands, artists, albums and songs
c/videos – Cartoons, entertaining videos, etc.
c/music_production – For singers, songwriters, producers and other people who make music
c/aiart – For pictures that you’ve made using OpenAI DALL-E, Midjourney, etc, as well as for news and discussions about such tools
c/drawing – Resources and discussions about drawing. You are welcome to show off drawings you’ve made. Note that for pictures where AI has been used a separate community c/aiart exists.
c/design
-.-.-.-
Sports and Lifestyle
c/skateboarding
c/travel – share experiences and pictures from your travels, ask questions about places you want to visit
c/surfing
c/sailing
c/climbing
c/skiing
c/snowboarding
-.-.-.-
Society, Life and Law
c/ipr – Intellectual Property Rights
-.-.-.-
Language specific communities
c/spanish – English discussions and links about the Spanish language, as well as Spanish learning resources. Posts and comments written in Spanish are welcome as well.
c/esperanto – English discussions and links about the Esperanto constructed language, as well as Esperanto learning resources. Posts and comments written in Esperanto are welcome as well.
-.-.-.-
Country specific communities
c/mexico – English and Spanish discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Mexico
c/spain – English and Spanish discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Spain
c/norway – English and Norwegian discussions and links relating to visiting or staying in Norway
-.-.-.-
General
c/pictures – Share photos and pictures you’ve made. Note that for pictures where AI has been used a separate community c/aiart exists.
-.-.-.-
Come have look and make an account.